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Double Trouble

#1 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 05:06

you are sitting south, with west dealer, and pick up the following hand

Scoring: IMPS


The auction goes

1♣ x 1♦ 1NT
p p 2♦ p
p x p ?

Do you think partners double is penalty, or take out, or optional, and what would you do with the given hand.

1♣ was better minor, not short. By partnership agreement 1NT shows 8-11. Double of 1♦ would have been responsive, but suggests sufficient tolerance for partner to compete to 2M. 2♣ over 1♦ would have been a forcing cue bid.
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#2 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 06:08

Penalty. Should I take-out double to the majors that partner has already almost denied? No, that is too far-fetched.
Michael Askgaard
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#3 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 09:53

Am i to assume from the lack of activity that everyone thinks that the penalty double meaning is obvious?

Phil
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#4 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 09:57

It's penalty. I can't even think of what alternative exists.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#5 User is offline   xcurt 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 09:59

It's penalty, but I strongly want to go throw up. Partner is going to expect more defense than this for my previous bidding. I really wish I had passed 1♦.
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#6 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 10:00

Well, its not obvious, but if you ever think its 'takeout', ask yourself what is partner asking us to takeout 'to'? If double is just a 'good hand' I'm happy to pass.
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#7 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 10:04

xcurt, on Jul 22 2009, 10:59 AM, said:

It's penalty, but I strongly want to go throw up. Partner is going to expect more defense than this for my previous bidding. I really wish I had passed 1♦.

I don't understand this comment. You have a 9 count with two kings, including Kx of their trump suit. Furthermore the suit was rebid instead of supported so they could even be in a 6-0. What exactly are you worried about? 1NT was fine.
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 10:06

1NT doesn't promise much in diamonds as partner is expected to have some diamonds too as he doubled 1♣. ♦Kx is plenty. Partner won't be gambling on more than that.
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#9 User is offline   Deevan 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 10:24

I do not understand the bidding at all.

1-Partner passed 1NT, so it does not look like he/she has a big hand.
2-It would sound reasonable for Partner to assume that South's hand may provide one trick (just bid 1NT), may be one and a half! Now suddenly, partner has found 5+ defensive tricks? where are these coming from? Did the 2D bidder go crazy?
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#10 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 10:50

Deevan, on Jul 22 2009, 11:24 AM, said:

I do not understand the bidding at all.

1-Partner passed 1NT, so it does not look like he/she has a big hand.
2-It would sound reasonable for Partner to assume that South's hand may provide one trick (just bid 1NT), may be one and a half! Now suddenly, partner has found 5+ defensive tricks? where are these coming from? Did the 2D bidder go crazy?


East's bid isn't very safe but some people would surely make it, and he is down 5. Why should you let him get away? Obviously that is better than expected, but there is no reason that even if the hand is more favorable for them they couldn't be down 2, or 3, or for that matter 1. Partner doesn't need 5 rock solid tricks to double, just good defense and good diamonds and assuming some help from our hand. Even when they make it it's not doubled into game, -180 is lose 3 imps against the same contract, no big deal at imps.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#11 User is offline   Lobowolf 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 11:05

helene_t, on Jul 22 2009, 11:06 AM, said:

1NT doesn't promise much in diamonds as partner is expected to have some diamonds too as he doubled 1♣.

Of course, the double of clubs doesn't promise much in the way of diamonds nowadays, either.
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#12 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 12:12

ok, thanks guys, i couldnt imagine it not being penalty myself, but my partner did not share my view, and i was in the minority of the people that i polled thinking it was penalty, so its nice to be vindicated :)
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#13 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 12:18

You cant make a takeout double of a suit in which youve already shown length.
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#14 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-July-22, 13:30

phil_20686, on Jul 22 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

so its nice to be vindicated :)

I hope you realize this isn't the purpose of these boards.
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