[jmcw]

Scoring: MP

1♠ 2♦ p 3♦
3♠ DBL All Pass

---

Do you agree with South's DBL?
Should North pull?

[jillybean]

My 2cents.. NO and NO

[bb79]

my 2 cents yes and yes, we have a different currency here
north has 0 defence very good offense, how can he not pull?

[Cascade]

North didn't promise defense and he does have the ♣ K.

What did the double mean anyway?

[the hog]

Pulling doubles like this is showing a total lack of respect for partner. Totally disagree with the double. Unlike some people, I don't play with myself, (pun intended).
If the double was penalty it was a silly bid as well.

[jdonn]

Why wouldn't this double show extra values without direction? It seems you will get at least as many penalties by consulting partner as by waiting for penalty doubles, not to mention it's the only way to ever find 3NT from partner's side which south is interested in doing on this hand. It will also come up more frequently than a penalty double. North knows even more from his spade holding the double wasn't penalty, and north has a different sort of hand than his partner would expect since he should have bid 4♦ to begin with. 100% of the blame to north.

Btw it's usually fruitless to post assign the blame problems where the opponents got doubled in a cold contract. The majority of people automatically blame the doubler even when it's not his fault. It's the same reason it's often pointless to post atb problems for grand slams down 1, most people just blame whoever bid the grand slam even when it's not his fault.

[the hog]

jdonn, on Jul 17 2009, 01:31 PM, said:

he should have bid 4♦ to begin with. 100% of the blame to north.

Agree with this.

[marcD]

I guess it is a matter of agreement . For me South dbl shows values. I think is dbl is clearcut (3NT is not out of the picture if North has a stopper). Pass from North is not an option (good offense, no defense) . Close call between 4♣ and 4♦.

[Codo]

I think like Josh and the south player that double should show values and is no pure penalty.
Ron and the north player thought that this was a penalty double.

Ron and Josh should not play together.

ATB? No way, ***** happens in new partnerships.

So I agree with the double, but not with the pass.

[gnasher]

I'd make a penalty double with South's hand. It's matchpoints, I think we were making 3♦, I expect 3♠ to go down more often than it makes, and I have some hope of two down. I expect the defence to go: ♥AK, cross to partner's minor-suit king, heart ruff, minor-suit ace. It's unlucky to find that they have a 10-card heart fit that they haven't mentioned.

I would have raised 2♦ to 4♦ with the North hand, but having not done that I'd pass 3♠x. North has a king, a singleton, and enough trumps to hope to make a ruff or two.

I think calling this a "disaster" is an overstatement. At matchpoints you do sometimes concede doubled partscores - it's just part of the game. 3♠x making is no more or less a disaster than 3♠-2 undoubled when we were making 3♦.

[Jlall]

lol@ penalty double

[skjaeran]

I don't play this double as a penalty double. To me it just shows general strength, and asks partner to make an intelligent decision.

At MP, it's not that unreasonable to convert it to penalties with the north hand, having three trumps, a king and a singleton. At least not if opps are vulnerable. Here they're not, and passing with the north hand looks bad to me.

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Jul 17 2009, 10:40 AM, said:

lol@ penalty double

At playing the double as penalties, or at making one if that's what you play it as?

[jmcw]

The_Hog, on Jul 17 2009, 01:09 AM, said:

Pulling doubles like this is showing a total lack of respect for partner.  Totally disagree with the double. Unlike some people, I don't play with myself, (pun intended).
If the double was penalty it was a silly bid as well.

What is a surprise to me is how many regard this DBL as penalty in nature.
It seems a workable method but for me the DBL was intended as card showing.....partner to do something intelligent.
If you play this DBL as penalty how do you ever get to 3NT when North holds a ♠ card?. Clearly a decent possibility on this auction.

[mcphee]

Dble from the o/c hand to me is 100% clear as how else can you possibly reach 3N? It simply is not practical to play this double for penalties. In theory this is like a maximal double, a game try. We have bid and raised our suit, does anyone believe we are really going to carve up 3S? There are homes for people who believe this when we look at the N hand.

I see 3 possible bids for N (pass and 3N were also possible another day)
4D would be no thanks worst hand possible
4C forward going but not accepting game try always
5D ok lets take a shot here pard.

For the N player to pass a double is just flawed thinking. Those who double part scores in hope of 1 trick sets should only play pairs events. I doubt pass can even be right at pairs if they were vul and we are not. We may not even score a D on defense!

I feel I would vault to 5D at imps and 4c at pairs (passing partners 4D).

[peachy]

For me, South's Dbl shows a good overcall with enough defense to stand 3SX if partner likes that option. It is not penalty and it is not takeout, basically it is just "good hand". Pull is 100% with the North hand, in my methods.

[junyi_zhu]

jmcw, on Jul 17 2009, 03:55 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

1♠ 2♦ p 3♦
3♠ DBL All Pass

---

Do you agree with South's DBL?
Should North pull?

north can probably double 3D to show a hand that is good enough to raise to 3D, but not good enough to bid 4D. Now over partner's double, north really should bid at least 4D, and 5D is not bad but unlucky IMO.

[kenrexford]

Pass from North?!?!?

I'd be making slam tries.