[manudude03]

Sitting North

Scoring: IMP

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1NT(i)-X(ii)-P(iii)-P
XX-P-P-??

(i)12-14
(ii)Penalty
(iii) Forces XX either to play or for a weak non touching 2 suiter.

[gwnn]

I'd have bid 2♣ before, I bid 2♣ now. The sooner you bid 2♣ the more difficult it will be for them to get us.

In particular, chances are opener can't double 2♣ for takeout or penalty (depends which one they play) round 2 but can in round 3.

[andy_h]

My agreement is to also pull on the first round with a weak hand and pass with some values, so I would've also bid 2♣ the round before. Lets hope for -500 vs. their vul game.

[Quantumcat]

You pass with a good hand and bid with a very bad one. You have a very bad hand, therefore you should have bid the first time. It serves you right having passed! Partner will now bid game if you bid, it looks like you think the penalties won't be as big as your game (you would pass if you thought you could only make a partscore, or get them for more than your game) and if you pass obviously you will concede a huge amount.

[bid_em_up]

Quantumcat, on Aug 2 2009, 10:38 PM, said:

You pass with a good hand and bid with a very bad one. You have a very bad hand, therefore you should have bid the first time. It serves you right having passed! Partner will now bid game if you bid, it looks like you think the penalties won't be as big as your game (you would pass if you thought you could only make a partscore, or get them for more than your game) and if you pass obviously you will concede a huge amount.

Unless partner is an idiot, there is no way he should bid game if we bid now.

When RHO leaves the XX in, he is also showing a decent hand. Do you think he is upping the ante just for fun? He expects to make 1N xx'd and probably with overtricks. You can expect their side to have more than 1/2 the deck (20-23 hcp) and partner should have 15+ for his double of 1N.

How much does this leave for me to have? There is no way partner should bid game over any call I make in this position. He should know that I am broke. If he doesn't know this, or can't figure this out, then maybe he needs to find another hobby.

It is possible (although from looking at our hand, unlikely) that RHO has the weak two-suiter, and it is to our advantage to find out which hand type he has first. We will be completely content to defend a weak two-suiter, the trump suit may even be one of partners suits. Once RHO shows the penalty pass of the XX, our running can only mean one thing and that is we are broke and not going to sit for this.

Additionally, this lets you treat the immediate run after RHO's pass forcing XX as a weak hand and a 5+ card suit, and using this sequence allows you to show your cheapest 4 card suit (having already denied a 5 card with the 1st pass).

[helene_t]

I don't think 2♣ here should show a better hand than an immediate 2♣. Everything (in particular my failure to pass the second time) indicates that it is opps' board.

Rather, I think an immediate 2♣ should show a different shape. Maybe 2♣ first shows a 1-suiter, while a delayed 2♣ shows a two-suiter. Dunno if 3334 if better described as a 1-suiter or a 2-suiter, but other things being equal it would be better to bid first to make it more difficult for opps to penalize us.

[manudude03]

Thanks for the replies. I decided on 2♣, which partner corrected to 2♥ (and played there). This turned out to be second best when partner came up with Axx AKQxxxx x Jx and had the first 8 tricks in his own hand. Still proved to be a 13 imp gain when our teammates made 4♠.