[OleBerg]

From the Danish "Players manual":


Law 101 - Allowed partnership agreements.

A.     Teams Tournaments

         In Teams Tournaments any system and partnership agreement is allowed. Teams tournaments with less than 8 boards a match, is treated as a Pairs
         Tournament is this conjecture.

B.     Pairs Tournaments and single Players tournaments

         In Pairs Tournaments and single Players Tournaments Brown-Stickers and HUMs are not allowed.


Not a long way from perfect.

[Hanoi5]

Can you play cryptic?

[OleBerg]

Hanoi5, on Jul 3 2009, 03:00 AM, said:

Can you play cryptic?

Yes. In pairs too.

[Codo]

Maybe, just maybe this free spirit is one of the rasons that so many youngsters play bridge in the Netherlands?

And maybe this is one of the reasons why so young guns like Driver et al are capable to win European Championships?

While in countries which stronger limitations ( to protect the newbies) the ammount of young players is quite small?

[OleBerg]

Codo, on Jul 3 2009, 08:43 AM, said:

Maybe, just maybe this free spirit is one of the rasons that so many youngsters play bridge in the Netherlands?

And maybe this is one of the reasons why so young guns like Driver et al are capable to win European Championships?

While in countries which stronger limitations ( to protect the newbies) the ammount of young players is quite small?

Just to avoid possible misunderstandings, Denmark is not a part of the netherlands. ( But we are very alike.)

Apart from that, I think you could easily be right.

Not hard to imagine a youngster discarding the game, when she/he has thought of a new agreement, for instance a dual message signal, but is told it is illegal, because those playing it will probably cheat.

Take the OP's example. If we have 5 cards that we can spare, there is 120 ways to play them in two rounds, but you can only use two of those. Not the way to organize a serious mind-competition. IMHO that is.

[Codo]

OOps, well Danish and Dutch sounds so equal.

Hmm, at least they both starts with an D, like Germany.

But as far as I know the regulations in the Netherlands are not far from your stnandards anyway.

[the hog]

OleBerg, on Jul 3 2009, 02:34 PM, said:

Just to avoid possible misunderstandings, Denmark is not a part of the netherlands. ( But we are very alike.)

No thats right....Denmark is part of Sweden, isn't it?

[OleBerg]

The_Hog, on Jul 3 2009, 11:11 AM, said:

OleBerg, on Jul 3 2009, 02:34 PM, said:

Just to avoid possible misunderstandings, Denmark is not a part of the netherlands. ( But we are very alike.)

No thats right....Denmark is part of Sweden, isn't it?

Exactly, and we all wear horned helmets.

[helene_t]

It always surprised me so little information people abroad have about Denmark.

My Russian teacher at high school told us that a colleague from Russia was about to come over and she was so excited about it because she heard that in Copenhagen, the ice bears walk around in the streets.

At a volunteer project in Czechoslovakia (as it was then) with participants from many countries and four continents, we discussed our ideas about what the other participants' countries were like. Most had no ideas about Denmark. The only one who could say something about Denmark was a Finish girl who thought we were all unemployed and/or drug addicts. Which was sorta true at that time. In the meantime, the Danish economy has improved a lot.

An e-pal I once had (from Texas) was surprised to hear it was snowing in December in Denmark. Turned out she thought Denmark was one of the Australian states.

[Codo]

helene_t, on Jul 3 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

It always surprised me so little information people abroad have about Denmark.

My Russian teacher at high school told us that a colleague from Russia was about to come over and she was so excited about it because she herd that in Copenhagen, the ice bears walk around in the streets.

At a volunteer project in Czechoslovakia (as it was then) with participants from many countries and four continents, we discussed our ideas about what the other participants' countries were like. Most had no ideas about Denmark. The only one who could say something about Denmark was a Finish girl who thought we were all unemployed and/or drug addicts.

An e-pal I once had (from Texas) was surprised to hear it was snowing in December in Denmark. Turned out she thought Denmark was one of the Australian states.

I guess this is no big deal about Denmark, but about a lack of understanding for geography.

Okay, anybody should know that there are no more icebears in Copenhagen-they followed the penguins to Amsterdam.

[helene_t]

OleBerg, on Jul 3 2009, 08:34 AM, said:

If we have 5 cards that we can spare, there is 120 ways to play them in two rounds, but you can only use two of those.

Well there are 120 ways to play them in five rounds, and 20 ways to pick the first two.

[Free]

OleBerg, on Jul 2 2009, 09:50 PM, said:

From the Danish "Players manual":


Law 101 - Allowed partnership agreements.

A.     Teams Tournaments

         In Teams Tournaments any system and partnership agreement is allowed. Teams tournaments with less than 8 boards a match, is treated as a Pairs
         Tournament is this conjecture.

B.     Pairs Tournaments and single Players tournaments

         In Pairs Tournaments and single Players Tournaments Brown-Stickers and HUMs are not allowed.


Not a long way from perfect.

This is great, as long as you don't need to provide approved defenses In Belgium we use similar rules, except in low level competition. Belgium is not the Netherlands, and not France!

[OleBerg]

helene_t, on Jul 3 2009, 02:58 PM, said:

OleBerg, on Jul 3 2009, 08:34 AM, said:

If we have 5 cards that we can spare, there is 120 ways to play them in two rounds, but you can only use two of those.

Well there are 120 ways to play them in five rounds, and 20 ways to pick the first two.

New I couldn't count. Fortunately I still have a point.

[dicklont]

Free, on Jul 3 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

Belgium is not the Netherlands, and not France!

Belgium is hardly even Belgium!

[NickRW]

Codo, on Jul 3 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Maybe, just maybe this free spirit is one of the rasons that so many youngsters play bridge in the Netherlands?

And maybe this is one of the reasons why so young guns like Driver et al are capable to win European Championships?

While in countries which stronger limitations ( to protect the newbies) the ammount of young players is quite small?

Well, being serious now, I've seen a number of things online (from frustrated bidding theorists mainly), saying that the regulation of bidding agreements is one of the things keeping new (and particularly young) people away from the game. But I've never seen much in the way of actual evidence that it is really true, other than grumpy observations that the average age of players in many areas is rising (and has been for years).

So, is it actually true that Denmark or the Netherlands really have a much higher proportion of younger people playing? And if so, can we really attribute this to the bidding system regulations - or do such countries have a vigorous schools bridge scene - or some other reasonable cause for this difference?

Nick

[OleBerg]

NickRW, on Jul 3 2009, 05:09 PM, said:

Codo, on Jul 3 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Maybe, just maybe this free spirit is one of the rasons that so many youngsters play bridge in the Netherlands?

And maybe this is one of the reasons why so young guns like Driver et al are capable to win European Championships?

While in countries which stronger limitations ( to protect the newbies) the ammount of young players is quite small?

Well, being serious now, I've seen a number of things online (from frustrated bidding theorists mainly), saying that the regulation of bidding agreements is one of the things keeping new (and particularly young) people away from the game. But I've never seen much in the way of actual evidence that it is really true, other than grumpy observations that the average age of players in many areas is rising (and has been for years).

So, is it actually true that Denmark or the Netherlands really have a much higher proportion of younger people playing? And if so, can we really attribute this to the bidding system regulations - or do such countries have a vigorous schools bridge scene - or some other reasonable cause for this difference?

Nick

No idée,

but here are some numbers to compare with:


Number of registered bridge-players in Denmark: 26.000 (Steady in the period described below):

Participants in national Junior tournaments (# of players).

Year:    Pairs     Teams

2008      32          46

2007      36          44

2006      40          52

2005      52          54

2004      52          41



Should this turn out to be high numbers, reasons could be:

- Distance. Denmark is so small everybody can get to the tournament by a 4 hour train ride.
- Money. The difference between rich and poor is smaller in Denmark, than almost anywhere else. Everybody can afford to play bridge. (And I do mean everybody). Furthermore, there is a strong tradition in Denmark for non-profit clubs.


But when they get there, they are not scared away by out-of-date, silly regulations.

[OleBerg]

Free, on Jul 3 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

OleBerg, on Jul 2 2009, 09:50 PM, said:

From the Danish "Players manual":


Law 101 - Allowed partnership agreements.

A.     Teams Tournaments

         In Teams Tournaments any system and partnership agreement is allowed. Teams tournaments with less than 8 boards a match, is treated as a Pairs
         Tournament is this conjecture.

B.     Pairs Tournaments and single Players tournaments

         In Pairs Tournaments and single Players Tournaments Brown-Stickers and HUMs are not allowed.


Not a long way from perfect.

This is great, as long as you don't need to provide approved defenses In Belgium we use similar rules, except in low level competition. Belgium is not the Netherlands, and not France!

You have to provide defenses, but they don't have to be approved. They are expected to be honestly something you believe will work. This has been the practice for the 22 years I've played, and there has not been a single instance of accusations of providing bad defenses. Worst cases has been that the opponents gets a few minutes to make written agreements, the time going from the pair not providing the defence.

In the flagship-tournament of the Danish Bridge federation, you will often get away with not providing a defense, at least not in writing.

Needless to say, there are no constraints on the defenses.

Ps.: Federation is with a non-capitol on purpose. (Whats the name of a letter that is not a capitol?)

[helene_t]

OleBerg, on Jul 3 2009, 05:26 PM, said:

Ps.: Federation is with a non-capitol on purpose. (Whats the name of a letter that is not a capitol?)

lowercase

[OleBerg]

helene_t, on Jul 3 2009, 06:28 PM, said:

OleBerg, on Jul 3 2009, 05:26 PM, said:

Ps.: Federation is with a non-capitol on purpose. (Whats the name of a letter that is not a capitol?)

lowercase

Embarrassing . How many times haven't i read: "Our passwords are case-sensitive."

[the hog]

"Turned out she thought Denmark was one of the Australian states. "

Actually Helene, there is a town called Denmark in Australia.