[twcho]

Scoring: MP

W　N　E　S
3♣　P　P　4♠
P　6♠　AP

---

6♠ swiftly went down 2 because of bad break in trump. Any comment on the bidding? Is south too aggressive or north or just unlucky?

Will your decision be different if this is IMP?

[mike777]

twcho, on Jun 28 2009, 07:57 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

W　N　E　S
3♣　P　P　4♠
P　6♠　AP

---

6♠ swiftly went down 2 because of bad break in trump. Any comment on the bidding? Is south too aggressive or north or just unlucky?

Will your decision be different if this is IMP?

South=fine
North =too much......bad trump break...who knew

[neilkaz]

I think N was too aggressive here even with IMP scoring and certainly for MP. Looking at a stiff 2 for support and 5 cards in the opening preempt suit, it maybe that his hand isn't close to good enough to offer play for slam. 3 aces are nice, but one my be ruffed on the opening lead if PD has the stiff ♣ and LHO is void.

I hope that I am not "resulting" the hand, which is always the danger here.

[benlessard]

I prefer 3S instead of 4S. Of course if partner got the D A and the J of spades we might miss game but if hes got 2 A hes going to raise me.

I would never think about passing with 3 aces, but here having 5 clubs is really annoying, our t9 of clubs strongly suggest that RHO has 7 of them so my A doesnt have its full value or its going to be ruffed. Its a really annoying problem. My initial plan is to bid 5C, if partner find it encouraging and we reach 6 ill wait for the lightner X of 6S and pull to 6Nt but im really not sure.

Close call for me.

[mike777]

at MP...I think this is far from close call

Pass...,Pass

[655321]

I think both players were a little optimistic.

I can certainly understand the 4♠ bid, but South's hand does have flaws. The spades are not solid, there are no Aces, and the singleton club is much worse than a void.

As North, I would be convinced that partner was void in clubs, making the ♣A wasted. North has 2 useful Aces (good), but a singleton in partner's suit.

When both players stretch a little on the same hand, the final contract needs some luck.

[Codo]

Both streched, north a little more and a little too much..

[helene_t]

I think 4♠ is OK. After all he can't bid three and a half spades, unfortunately.

6♠ is too much. 5♠ or some other slam try would be enough.

[barryallen]

twcho, on Jun 28 2009, 07:57 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

W　N　E　S
3♣　P　P　4♠
P　6♠　AP

---

6♠ swiftly went down 2 because of bad break in trump. Any comment on the bidding? Is south too aggressive or north or just unlucky?

Will your decision be different if this is IMP?

This is why we all use pre-empts, limiting space and making the decision making harder. I can see no fault with the 4♠ over call. How would partner possibly know to raise 3♠ to game when such minimal values are required?

I would pass the 4♠ bid after a table side coma, but would have bid 5♠ with 2 small.

[P_Marlowe]

The bidding was fine, make the Jack of hearts
the Jack of spades and you want to be there,
since it will make with spades 3-2.

4S is clear cut, 6S is not so clear, but it is not a
bad bid either, espesially if you dont have a clue,
how partner would interpret 5S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[TimG]

5♠ would ask about trumps, right? Or, is it just a general slam try?

Would 5♣ be a general slam try with a club control?

What if we have a hand like Axx Axx AQxx xxx and are concerned instead about a club control?

[aguahombre]

twcho, on Jun 28 2009, 07:57 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

W　N　E　S
3♣　P　P　4♠
P　6♠　AP

---

6♠ swiftly went down 2 because of bad break in trump. Any comment on the bidding? Is south too aggressive or north or just unlucky?

Bad break in trump? do you mean the opening club lead was not roughed with two spades at the same time --one of them being the ace?

[benlessard]

Quote

Bad break in trump? do you mean the opening club lead was not roughed with two spades at the same time --one of them being the ace?

My guess is that with AJTx East didnt make a lightner double and west with kj8 didnt lead clubs.

[Phil]

I'm OK with 4♠. Plenty of 6/7/8 point hands will pass 3♠ where 4♠ is excellent.

6♠ is pretty rich; 5♠ would focus on trump, and 5♣ is a general try with a problem in a red suit.

70% North, 30% South

[jdonn]

So if north had tried for slam and south rejected, they were still down in 5. Then whose fault is it? I don't accept blaming bad luck for the bad break, after the 3♣ bid it's almost expected, and it's always bad to go down in 5 of a major when you could have stopped in 4.

I blame north 100%. He knows trump solidity may be a problem, he knows there is a good chance the opening club lead will be ruffed, and his club length tells him there is a huge chance spades won't break. South was merely a little aggressive, which is perfectly fine when going for a game.

Edit: One more thing, north doesn't quite have the values anyway. I expect something like 17 with 7 spades for south although of course some variation is possible. 3 aces is nice but that's about 29 high and your long suit is no good for tricks.

[aguahombre]

benlessard, on Jun 29 2009, 12:08 PM, said:

Quote

Bad break in trump? do you mean the opening club lead was not roughed with two spades at the same time --one of them being the ace?

My guess is that with AJTx East didnt make a lightner double and west with kj8 didnt lead clubs.

Yeh, East is probably tired of the opps running to, and making, 6NT in similar situations. But, I couldn't come up with any construction which includes an initial pass by north and a 4S bid by south, with 6 clubs in the combined hands, which would give a play for 6NT. (XX ATxxx AQ AJTx---kqxxxxx kqj k Qx?) Not on this auction.

[lilboyman]

Looks like there is a 50% chance that the opening club lead will be ruffed and there is no reason to assume you have more than a 7 card fit in Spades with a good probability that they are not breaking. So, it looks like slam is a slight underdog but its close. Its seems then that the state of your game in MP and whether you are way ahead or way behind at IMPs will factor into deciding what to do here. Unless, I need to shoot for a top at MP I would not bid slam with the North cards. Far behind at IMPs its a given you go for it but if you are far ahead against good ops trying to catch up its a harder decision. In a close match, game before slam.

[MosesBlack]

If you use Modern losing trick count and cover card theory you stop a 5 spades making. Come to NABC and kibitz me

[Phil]

MosesBlack, on Jul 8 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

If you use Modern losing trick count and cover card theory you stop a 5 spades making. Come to NABC and kibitz me

Do they allow kibs in the I/N?

[bid_em_up]

Ouch.