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Your choice of actions

Poll: How would you bid this hand? (20 member(s) have cast votes)

How would you bid this hand?

  1. Double then 2C (1 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  2. Double then 2D (9 votes [45.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.00%

  3. Double then 3C (3 votes [15.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.00%

  4. Double then 4D (5 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  5. 2C then 4C (if partner bids) (1 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  6. 2C then 4D (if partner bids) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. 2C then 4S (if partner bids) (1 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   se12sam 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 03:19

Scoring: XIMP

East as dealer begins with 1♦ -- which promises at least 4 cards. The bidding goes:
East - South - West - North
1♦   -  ??? -   pass - 1♠*
pass - ???

Would appreciate your comments as well.
Notes:
1. Assume you don't know partner will bid 1♠ when you take your first action.
2. If you bid 2♣ first, you cannot be sure partner will bid.

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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 03:47

double then 4D. I need the ♣Q and 5 spades for a good slam.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#3 User is offline   mich-b 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 04:51

1st round : Double - no other choice.
2nd round : The choice is between 2♦ and 4♦. 4♦ is more informative (shows at once the ♠ support, ♦ shortage and slam interest) , but I feel my hand is too powerful , and he will often sign off after 4♦ when slam is makeable.
So I think I will try to find out more , by going slowly with 2♦.
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#4 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 05:01

Double is clear cut.

Now the choices are 2 ♦ 3 ♣ and 4♦
I do not like 4♦ because we may not find the right strain when partner with a 3244 or 3253 decided to bid his bertter major.
3 ♣ and later show the spade support looks nice but maybe this is not as easy as it seems.

So 2♦, intending to raise spades later.
Kind Regards

Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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#5 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 05:08

Hi,

#1 X, what ever your upper limit for a simple overcall is, this hand is too strong,
and you wont have a troube bidding your suit at the level.
#2 4D as a splinter looks reasonable, although I would most likely go with 4S,
since I doubt, we will be able to get to slam in a confident manner.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#6 User is offline   mich-b 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 05:40

Codo, on Jul 6 2009, 06:01 AM, said:

Double is clear cut.

Now the choices are 2 ♦ 3 ♣ and 4♦
I  do not like  4♦ because we may not find the right strain when partner with a 3244 or 3253 decided to bid his bertter major.
3 ♣ and later show  the spade support looks nice but maybe this is not as easy as it seems.

So 2♦, intending to raise spades later.

I thought it is standard that a 3♣ rebid by the doubler is very strong (like an Acol 2 opening) but non forcing. To force the doubler needs to cuebid , than bid a new suit.
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#7 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 07:12

I am sure that double and new suit is very strong, so I thought that double and jump to a new suit is surely stronger then an ACOL 2.

I have no idea whether is allready a GF in theory, maybe it is passable with a non fitting yarb., but with Qxxx,xxx,xxx,Qxx partner will not pass.....
Kind Regards

Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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#8 User is offline   se12sam 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 04:31

Scoring: XIMP

East as dealer began with 1♦. The bidding at our table went:
East - South - West - North
1♦  -  Dbl -  pass - 1♠
pass - 4♦ -  pass -  4♠
All pass

East held ALL the missing HCP and it is possible to make a grand on a squeeze

When the deal was played, I held the North hand. At the table partner blamed me for not bidding on (his rationale: I was a maximum for the 1♠ bid, which could be on 0 HCP hands). However, I thought my bid was normal (my rationale: most of my HCP -- ♦A -- is wasted opposite a singleton/void).

Please feel free to comment / assign blame for not reaching the 6-level in bidding.
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#9 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 05:03

Totally north's fault. North has two tricks for partner, who has forced to game opposite a possible 0 count. Aces are almost never a waste, and you should not consider an ace opposite a singleton to be wasted values, especially after partner has shown slam interest. The ace of diamonds is a great card to have given the splinter.

When looking for slam, it's about covering partner's losing tricks. The ace of diamonds covers any possible diamond loser partner has, and the club Q will solidify partner's holding in that suit.
Ming

--Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
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#10 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 06:07

I think that your partner was right, but I understand your viewpoint too.
This is why I think that 4 ♦ is no good bid. With your hand you must bid 5 ♦ to show your main value, hardly something you would like to do. But you have to.

After 2 ♦ it had been much easier for you to show your maximum at a lower level.
Kind Regards

Roland


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#11 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 07:15

for 4♦ I'd rather have a 5th spade, partner is yet to confirm he has 4. 3♣ then 4♠ looks bst to find best game at least. Agree that north is too strong for 4 spades, 5 diamonds sounds right, 4th spade is a nice extra he probably didn't consider.
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#12 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 07:54

Agree that North is worth a move such as 5♦, disagree that he should even for a moment consider his 4 spades to the 9 to be a 'nice extra'.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#13 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 13:13

♦A could be wasted but a singleton is much more likely than a void.

Usually with a splinter with nothing (surely) wasted I think we should be prepared to venture to the five-level. This is a little different since 1♠ is such a wide range. However we do have extra values.

Doubler has 2♦ as a general force so maybe it is possible to play 3♦ as a normal splinter and 4♦ as a void on this auction.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#14 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 13:30

X and 3C forcing
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#15 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 14:57

benlessard, on Jul 8 2009, 07:30 AM, said:

X and 3C forcing

I thought the standard for 3♣ was something like 19 HCP but not forcing.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 16:20

Cascade, on Jul 7 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

benlessard, on Jul 8 2009, 07:30 AM, said:

X and 3C forcing

I thought the standard for 3♣ was something like 19 HCP but not forcing.

what do you think 2♣ shows?
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#17 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 16:23

Doubling then jumping in a suit is very strong but not forcing. I think it would be perfect on this hand if partner had responded 1♥ instead of 1♠. After 1♠ we are obviously going to game.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#18 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 18:13

Fluffy, on Jul 8 2009, 10:20 AM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 7 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

benlessard, on Jul 8 2009, 07:30 AM, said:

X and 3C forcing

I thought the standard for 3♣ was something like 19 HCP but not forcing.

what do you think 2♣ shows?

A bit less than 3♣.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#19 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 21:57

I would X and then bid 4C, which in my system shows a hand of this sort. Surprised at no other 4C bids.
Second choice would be a x followed by a 4D bid.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#20 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-July-08, 02:01

There's a hand in the September 2007 Bridge World where most of the panel bid
  1♣ dbl pass 1♠
  pass 3♥
intending it as non-forcing, so it's probably unwise to bid 3♣ unless you're sure partner is going to interpret it correctly.

What shape can partner be to have only three spades? With a very weak 3343 or 3253 he should bid 2♣, because that's less likely to get raised to the four level. I suppose he could have something like Qxx xxx xxxxx xx, but on that hand the best game is 4♠ anyway.

I could live with being in slam opposite ♠Qxxx and nothing else, so I don't think it's sufficient to splinter and then give up. I'd start with 2♦ and see if partner shows any sign of life.

After someone doubles and then cue-bids, there's a good case for playing the first step in reply as an artificial negative. Without that agreement, I think that rebidding 2♠ just shows a bad hand and doesn't promise any more spades than before. I'd splinter over that, showing a massive hand that's still interested in slam even opposite a pile of junk. That doesn't emphasise the importance of ♣Q, bu it's hard to get spades agreed and show clubs.

With advancer's actual hand in the actual auction, clearly he should move. An ace opposite shortage isn't as valuable as an ace opposite length, but it's still useful for keeping control, as an entry, and as a trick.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2009-July-08, 02:03

... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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