[Apollo81]

all white, mps

♠x
♥Qx
♦QJTxx
♣Qxxxx

p (p) 1♥ (2♠)
?

If not, why?

[rbforster]

depending on the auction, but i'd say yes.

1♥-(1♠)-X

[mikegill]

Guess he forgot to put the auction in there...

p p 1♥ 2♠
?

[TimG]

I do not like a negative double over 1♥-(2♠). I would expect some defensive values, even from a passed hand. I don't really want to invite opener to convert.

[Apollo81]

mikegill, on Jun 26 2009, 01:29 PM, said:

Guess he forgot to put the auction in there...

p p 1♥ 2♠
?

Yes, this is the auction.

[kfay]

Automatic

[Phil]

Yes.

Pard will have a tough time balancing and they have at least an eight card spade fit so I don't want to defend 2♠.

[Hanoi5]

I said no, but maybe my low values are so well placed (the ♥Q may be very important). I'm not quite sure though, couldn't my partner pass with good spades and expecting some 11 HCP's in my hand?

[Fluffy]

I prefer to pass without A nor K.

[mtvesuvius]

I'll double this, sorry partner

[Jlall]

Too much upside to not double.

[P_Marlowe]

No, too weak.

Always ask yourself, how you feel, if partner passes your double out,
and dont come with "take out doubles are meant to be taken out".

Also ask yourself, how you will feel, if partner bids 3NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[MarkDean]

I would pass. Not enough defense. Either LHO is about to bid more spades, or partner is likely to want to defend. All white MPs does make it tempting though.

[cherdanno]

all white mps? SURE!
What was the hand again?

[barryallen]

I can see so many ways of getting into trouble if you bid anything but pass. I can't see any real problems of missing anything vital should you pass. Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me!

[cherdanno]

barryallen, on Jun 29 2009, 06:26 AM, said:

Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me!

Huh? Partner will pass with any balanced hand with 3 spades.

[barryallen]

cherdanno, on Jun 29 2009, 06:54 AM, said:

barryallen, on Jun 29 2009, 06:26 AM, said:

I can see so many ways of getting into trouble if you bid anything but pass. I can't see any real problems of missing anything vital should you pass. Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me! 

Huh? Partner will pass with any balanced hand with 3 spades.

Just exactly what will you be missing out on that requires your strategic 7 points? I can easily see you missing a part score, but is it really worth it for the risk involved? Then you have the added problem of partner believing you have more values then what you hold, getting in deeper?

[Apollo81]

I have mixed feelings on the hand, which I think are reflected in the current 17-12 vote count.

On the one hand, you have offense consistent with a negative double at this level. We can likely make 3 of a minor, and it's unlikely we can defeat 2s. Defending 2s will likely be below average, particularly in a weaker field. We might even have a game. However, several bad things can happen if we double. Partner could leave it in, or partner could double 3s when they compete to it and put us to a guess, which we may get wrong. When we can make 3 of a minor, the opponents can often make 3s and will bid it, so how much are we really accomplishing by doubling?

I think if I held this hand at the table, I would double, hoping that something good happens (such as we get to play 3 of something, or the opps bid 3 over 3 and go down). However I would think I was overbidding, and I'd be concerned that we will end up defending a doubled making contract later on.

For those curious, this didn't come from a real life deal, it came up in a discussion about what constitutes a typical negative double in this auction.

[cherdanno]

barryallen, on Jun 29 2009, 10:12 AM, said:

cherdanno, on Jun 29 2009, 06:54 AM, said:

barryallen, on Jun 29 2009, 06:26 AM, said:

I can see so many ways of getting into trouble if you bid anything but pass. I can't see any real problems of missing anything vital should you pass. Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me! 

Huh? Partner will pass with any balanced hand with 3 spades.

Just exactly what will you be missing out on that requires your strategic 7 points? I can easily see you missing a part score, but is it really worth it for the risk involved? Then you have the added problem of partner believing you have more values then what you hold, getting in deeper?

Did you notice the scoring is matchpoints, and the vulnerability is noone vulnerable?

[aguahombre]

barryallen, on Jun 29 2009, 06:26 AM, said:

I can see so many ways of getting into trouble if you bid anything but pass.  I can't see any real problems of missing anything vital should you pass. Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me!

partner WILL let this lie. He has some spades if it floats back to him. systemic 2nt if the 2S bid did not occur, showing weak response with lots of minor suit cards.

maybe 2NT should still show this hand ---frequency of having something like this vs having a natural 2NT call as a passed hand.