[the hog]

ovncylmz, on Jun 28 2009, 06:56 AM, said:

forza lanzarotti-buratti:) forza cheating!

And you are an authority on this matter because....?
Posts like yours are despicable.

[xcurt]

MFA, on Jun 27 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

JanM, on Jun 27 2009, 10:08 AM, said:

Weichsel, on the other hand, doesn't sort at all. At the recent Trials, he opened 2♠ on a 5323 hand with almost opening bid strength. The Vugraph commentators wondered why, as did I (I was the operator). When the hand was over, someone asked Peter what his shape had been and he said "6322." Then a short discussion occurred about who had the 13th club, and Russ, sitting across the table from me, looked at me - I sort of nodded at Peter, Russ said "he was really 5323?" I nodded. Peter, shocked, argued for a moment, then said "I guess I should start arranging my cards"

Even for the brainiest of players, if he doesn't sort, he will make mistakes. Seems silly to do that to oneself.

Playing against Peter is a weird experience. He's probably wound as tightly as any WC player I ever faced at the table. I had no idea he didn't sort, though. Shows you how much I notice of my opponents mannerisms.

[OleBerg]

Is this cheating:

I once had to bring in this thrumph suit, vs a high-level player:


♠ Kxxx

♠ A10xxx


I played a small towards the King. He demonstrably pulled the queen from the far left of his hand.

Naturally I played a small to the ace, taking his jack down.

Did he cheat?
Did I cheat?

(Do I love to tell this story? YES!)

[Jlall]

Oleberg, if you noticed by accident you noticed by accident. Nothing you can do about that. Once you notice, it's obvious he has QJ tight. If he plays that way routinely with QJ tight he is trying to trick you into thinking he has stiff Q. Of course a non idiot will take the other inference.

Stuff like that is very common. I remember when I was 14 I had QJxx opp AT9xx. I led the Q and LHO, a "WC" player fumbled and played the highest outstanding spot. LOL. I dropped it, I wonder if I would have the balls to do that these days.

[ovncylmz]

The_Hog, on Jun 27 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

ovncylmz, on Jun 28 2009, 06:56 AM, said:

forza lanzarotti-buratti:) forza cheating!

And you are an authority on this matter because....?
Posts like yours are despicable.

LOL i was kidding!

[cherdanno]

Jlall, on Jun 25 2009, 02:16 PM, said:

Way more abuse of subtle UI goes on than people think, way more stuff like watching where your opp pulls their card goes on than people think, way more stuff like overhearing something about a board or seeing your opps scorecard goes on, but I still think that blatant dirty cheating is pretty rare.

If that is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), doesn't that mean we should worry more about
- playing more events with screens,
- not sorting our hand or hiding our cards,
- enforcing "don't talk about hands during the session",
and worry less about banning cell phones and delaying vuegraph?

[bidule4]

cherdanno, on Jun 28 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 25 2009, 02:16 PM, said:

Way more abuse of subtle UI goes on than people think, way more stuff like watching where your opp pulls their card goes on than people think, way more stuff like overhearing something about a board or seeing your opps scorecard goes on, but I still think that blatant dirty cheating is pretty rare.

If that is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), doesn't that mean we should worry more about
- playing more events with screens,
- not sorting our hand or hiding our cards,
- enforcing "don't talk about hands during the session",
and worry less about banning cell phones and delaying vuegraph?

bridge without screens is not serious bridge

yvan

[JoAnneM]

bidule4, on Jun 28 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

cherdanno, on Jun 28 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 25 2009, 02:16 PM, said:

Way more abuse of subtle UI goes on than people think, way more stuff like watching where your opp pulls their card goes on than people think, way more stuff like overhearing something about a board or seeing your opps scorecard goes on, but I still think that blatant dirty cheating is pretty rare.

If that is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), doesn't that mean we should worry more about
- playing more events with screens,
- not sorting our hand or hiding our cards,
- enforcing "don't talk about hands during the session",
and worry less about banning cell phones and delaying vuegraph?

bridge without screens is not serious bridge

yvan

That is ridiculous. There is lots of serious bridge, and not everyone can play in a "screens" event.

[H_KARLUK]

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Politeness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudeness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

[mtvesuvius]

H_KARLUK, on Jun 28 2009, 10:58 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Politeness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudeness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-topic

[H_KARLUK]

mtvesuvius, on Jun 29 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

H_KARLUK, on Jun 28 2009, 10:58 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Politeness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudeness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-topic

Your link reminds me :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denying

Whatever.

[Rossoneri]

This is not high-level, but I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened.

Playing in a pairs league partnering Ant, a board was passed to us and the people at the previous table were talking about the passed over board not-so-discreetly. When we played the board, opponents bid to 7NT easily. After the round was over, Ant told me about how he could hear the discussion at the other table easily even though he was furthest away from the previous table.

I did not call director as I thought this would be difficult to prove anyway. I wonder if I made the right decision.

And of course, there were times when I wondered if some opponents were looking at where I was picking out my cards from.

[Codo]

You cannot accuse your opponents of cheating when your partner heard something.

But when you hear what they say at another table, you can tell the TD what you heard.

When he thinks that this makes the board unplayable, he will grant both pairs - 3 imps or 60/60.

When he decides that there are no UIs, he can decide to let you play the board.

And he will give a warning or a penalty to the offending side- here the other table.


This is not about cheating, it is about not talking loud about boards in play.

[matmat]

mtvesuvius, on Jun 28 2009, 11:21 PM, said:

H_KARLUK, on Jun 28 2009, 10:58 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Politeness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudeness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-topic

LOL

[the hog]

H_KARLUK, on Jun 29 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Politeness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudeness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling

[H_KARLUK]

There will be always denying http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/denying and pleonasm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleonasm

Anyway there will be only one way to win :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor

[the hog]

H_KARLUK, on Jun 29 2009, 03:06 PM, said:

There will be always denying http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/denying and pleonasm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleonasm

Anyway there will be only one way to win :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor

Thanks for an extremely intelligent and elucidating response on this topic.

[jdonn]

pleonasm LOL

[Cascade]

Rossoneri, on Jun 29 2009, 05:02 PM, said:

This is not high-level, but I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened.

Playing in a pairs league partnering Ant, a board was passed to us and the people at the previous table were talking about the passed over board not-so-discreetly. When we played the board, opponents bid to 7NT easily. After the round was over, Ant told me about how he could hear the discussion at the other table easily even though he was furthest away from the previous table.

I did not call director as I thought this would be difficult to prove anyway. I wonder if I made the right decision.

And of course, there were times when I wondered if some opponents were looking at where I was picking out my cards from.

If something was heard then you should call the director before the hand was played.

If someone heard something and did not call the director and took advantage of what they heard then that is definitely cheating.

Calling the director after the opponents bid and make 7NT sounds too much like sour grapes - whatever noise they make.

[jdonn]

Cascade, on Jun 30 2009, 04:55 AM, said:

Rossoneri, on Jun 29 2009, 05:02 PM, said:

This is not high-level, but I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened.

Playing in a pairs league partnering Ant, a board was passed to us and the people at the previous table were talking about the passed over board not-so-discreetly. When we played the board, opponents bid to 7NT easily. After the round was over, Ant told me about how he could hear the discussion at the other table easily even though he was furthest away from the previous table.

I did not call director as I thought this would be difficult to prove anyway. I wonder if I made the right decision.

And of course, there were times when I wondered if some opponents were looking at where I was picking out my cards from.

If something was heard then you should call the director before the hand was played.

If someone heard something and did not call the director and took advantage of what they heard then that is definitely cheating.

Calling the director after the opponents bid and make 7NT sounds too much like sour grapes - whatever noise they make.

Agree on all three counts. In fact I think calling the director after the hand is particularly bad, since that forces you to admit you heard another table speaking about the hand earlier but didn't call the director then.