[AAr]

When the Tourney Rules specifically state: "Polite manners required.", or "No rude manners will be allowed or tolerated". does that mean that the TD has every right to expect EVERY player to use PERFECT manners?

If so, I don't agree with this rule, and here's why.

My manners are good, but I do like to gloat at good results and do tend to say the wrong thing or insult people (not intentially, mind you, but with saying the wrong thing).

So, this is what I'm asking.

If my manners are good, but have some flaws in them, should I stay away from tourneys that say "No rude manners"? Does the TD have a right to blacklist me for bad manners when they say so? Would I still be welcome in tourneys period?

What kind of tourneys should I still join? And, should TDs expect absoutely perfect manners when the tourney rules say "good manners only"?

I just feel that, even when the tourney rules state that only good manners are allowed that I should still be allowed to occasionally gloat at a good score, or make a statement that MIGHT insult or annoy anyone unintentionally (like, saying "Wdo", and partner is upset at this), or interrupting the conversation unpolitely. Do you agree with me on this?


Thanks!

[matmat]

edited for content.

LOL

[Lobowolf]

AAr, on Jun 18 2009, 10:43 PM, said:

My manners are good, but I do like to gloat at good results

ok, I have to break my general rule here.



LOL

[AAr]

JTC: I'm not talking about allowing obvious bad manners (Cheating, blantant insults, cussing, temper tantrums, name-calling, obscene gestures, etc). I'm in full agreement that these behaviors should be strictly prohibited and punished, and I would never do these things nor play in something that would allow such stuff. I'm just talking about minor stuff.

[Codo]

"polite manners demanded" means the "minor stuff".

You are not allow to cheat, insult etc. in tournements anyway, so this special announcement mean the "minor issues".

If you partner someone who is upset about "wdo", search a new partner.
If you gloat at good results, do it silent in your room and shut up in public.
If you know that you sometimes insult people, shut up. Just say something when it is nice.

I am no TD and if I were, I would not run "good manners only" tournements.

But if I would, I would blacklist you for gloating and insulting.

[matmat]

let's make this clear

obnoxious behaviour toward opponents, such as gloating, or a sarcastic "wdo" is bad manners, equivalent to a blatant insult or name-calling.

you are way out of line if you do that.

[peachy]

AAr, on Jun 19 2009, 01:35 AM, said:

JTC: I'm not talking about allowing obvious bad manners (Cheating, blantant insults, cussing, temper tantrums, name-calling, obscene gestures, etc). I'm in full agreement that these behaviors should be strictly prohibited and punished, and I would never do these things nor play in something that would allow such stuff. I'm just talking about minor stuff.

Perception is all there is. If somebody at the table perceives your gloating or other remarks as rude, then the remarks "are" rude and the TD has the power to be the judge and jury of it, backed by bridge laws.

I don't see why it is important for you to test the limits, at the table. Minor or major, doesn't matter. Gloat etc all you want in private messages but at the table, don't annoy or insult the opponents or partner with public comments that can be perceived as bad manners.

[qwery_hi]

My policy is to only say hi once at the beginning of play and perhaps a couple of wd's during the play.

[mtvesuvius]

matmat, on Jun 19 2009, 12:14 AM, said:

edited for content.

LOL

Agree 100% with matmat here.

[JoAnneM]

See, what I don't get is why anyone needs to publicly gloat, minorly insult, or whatever in the first place. Why would you feel the need to do something that might lessen the enjoyment of someone else.

But that need is there for some and that is why we have those rules. I think the ACBL Zero Tolerance Code is good and could easily be adopted by any club, even though it is only required at sanctioned tournaments.

If you need to ask if something is bad manners it probably is.

I am proud to be a member of the ACBL Goodwill Committee and one of our goals is a roomful of bridge players with no ugliness or hurt feelings. (We have other functions too)

[goodwintr]

The Hideous Hog was an extreme gloater, but with entirely beneficent motives. He only gloated, he said, so that the other players might share in his own great pleasure at whatever coup he had just pulled off. What could be more generous than that?

[onoway]

One of the advantages of playing online is that you can maintain the aspect of good manners at the table while in the privacy of your home you can be screaming at your partner or beating your head against the wall or howling in glee at a good result. You can even do a victory dance like a football player after a touchdown if you are so inclined, with no-one the wiser so you don't appear to the rest of the players at the table as a jerk.
As far as that goes, you can PRIVATE message partner between the rounds and share a gloat if you must.
If your pard is the sensitive type you can private message the opps with a SINCERE wdos. Sarcasm here should get you booted, private message or no.
So why in the world would anyone need to be unpleasant at the table? If you can't be nice, be silent.

[jdonn]

AAr, on Jun 19 2009, 01:35 AM, said:

JTC: I'm not talking about allowing obvious bad manners (Cheating, blantant insults, cussing, temper tantrums, name-calling, obscene gestures, etc). I'm in full agreement that these behaviors should be strictly prohibited and punished, and I would never do these things nor play in something that would allow such stuff. I'm just talking about minor stuff.

Right, not obviously bad manners, just gloating!

The rules of tournaments are not the problem here...

[AAr]

I seem to be in the minority with my opinion.

I have toned down on commenting on my results and mentioning the last hand because I found out that could offend partners and opponents.

I understand "No gloating", "No post-hand commenting", and rules like that now.

However, I still think that "Zero Tolerance For Rude Manners" is not a good rule since I could mean to say something nice, which in fact, insulted the person (or opponents of person) it meant for. Insulting anyone in any way, intentonal or not, is perceived to be rude, and under BBO rules, the TD can replace and blacklist me and I have no right to complain to BBO Staff as the TD did something entirely within his/her rules. And, isn't not saying "Typ" after he/she made his/her contract or set the opponents bad manners as well? So, it's not like being silent is totally perfect manners also.

I remember before I joined BBO, i played chess at FICS and got put on their "Abusers List" for doing something they thought was rude which I had no idea was not acceptable, and I was offended at that (partly why I quit FICS and Chess).

Seriously, I do try to be very courteous and I was taught to use very polite manners, and 99% of the time do.

You see what I get at. Any advice for me?

[mtvesuvius]

insensitive but funny post edited

[TimG]

AAr, on Jun 19 2009, 02:26 PM, said:

You see what I get at. Any advice for me?

Think before you type.

If you unintentionally are rude, a simple and contrite apology usually does the trick.

[jillybean]

Its easy to hide behind the anonymity of the internet and say things you wouldnt in real life (maybe some of us would!) To make matters worse, without facial expressions, body language and tone messages are often miconstrued.

On the other hand, the ability to 'whisper' to my partner between rounds allows me to gloat, swear, curse and insult the opps to my hearts content.

[barmar]

Rudeness is like what a Supreme Court justice said about pornography: you can't define it, but you know it when you see it.

And as such, there will always be grey areas. Hopefully the TDs will not go overboard trying to implement this rule, and only apply it in extreme or obvious cases.

It's a fine line they have to walk, though. If someone complains about rudeness, and the TD disagrees with them, they may take that as insulting.

I know it's alot to ask, but "Can't we all just get along?"

[JoAnneM]

I think saying anything at the table after a hand is over is "dangerous" because it is very rare that everyone at the table played flawlessly. So, just as in ftf bridge you don't hi-five partner at the table, you shouldn't do it online either, unless you always say vvvvvwdp regardless, and then you just look stupid.

[qwery_hi]

One idea is to have an option to disable chat in some tournaments.