[A2003]

One Hand from finals 2009 USBC

Can someone explain this bidding?

[mtvesuvius]

The alerts are there... A specific question would be helpful.

[helene_t]

South just bids relays (the cheapest bid available, asking North to describe his hand).

After the 3♦ bid, North's shape is completely known. I think 3NT shows 3 controls then (an ace is two controls, a king one) but I am not sure.

[JanM]

I believe:
1♣ = Strong, artificial, forcing
1♥ = 8+ HCP, either balanced or 3-suited
1♠ = Artificial, asking (sorry I failed to mark it as an alert - if I remember correctly, this hand came up when I was distracted by something else).
1NT = 12-14 HCP
2♣ = Artificial, asking
2♦ = Some Splinter
2♥ = Artificial, asking
2♠ = Club singleton
2NT = Artificial, asking
3♦ = 3 hearts (Weichsel actually wrote x 3 x 1)
3♥ = Artificial, asking
3NT = 5 spades (now he filled in over the x's 5 3 4 1)

After the auction, Rodwell or Meckstroth commented that it had been "very efficient" since the answers to the relays had each been one step above

[mike777]

JanM, on Jun 15 2009, 10:53 PM, said:

I believe:
1♣ = Strong, artificial, forcing
1♥ = 8+ HCP, either balanced or 3-suited
1♠ = Artificial, asking (sorry I failed to mark it as an alert - if I remember correctly, this hand came up when I was distracted by something else).
1NT =  12-14 HCP
2♣ = Artificial, asking
2♦ = Some Splinter
2♥ = Artificial, asking
2♠ = Club singleton
2NT = Artificial, asking
3♦ = 3 hearts (Weichsel actually wrote x 3 x 1)
3♥ = Artificial, asking
3NT = 5 spades (now he filled in over the x's 5 3 4 1)

After the auction, Rodwell or Meckstroth commented that it had been "very efficient" since the answers to the relays had each been one step above

interesting that 5=3=4=1 is considered balanced or 3 suited. I remember being taught that this is a two suited hand. 3 suited meaning 4441 or 5440.

perhaps the stiff QC made him want to call his hand balanced.

[TimG]

mike777, on Jun 16 2009, 08:03 AM, said:

interesting that 5=3=4=1 is considered balanced or 3 suited.  I remember being taught that this is a two suited hand. 3 suited meaning 4441 or 5440.

perhaps the stiff QC made him want to call his hand balanced.

I doubt very much that there are ways to describe 5=3=4=1 as two-suited AND three-suited in the relay structure. Relay systems don't often allow for this sort of judgment unless he wanted to lie and describe his hand as 5=2=5=1 or 4=4=4=1.

[helene_t]

mike777, on Jun 16 2009, 02:03 PM, said:

perhaps the stiff QC made him want to call his hand balanced.

No that is very unlikely, presumably this pair puts the 5431 patters in the category "3-suited". Or at least 5-3-4-1

[hrothgar]

Few couple

1. Interesting to see that this relay structure is showing strength (measured in HCP) so early in the relay structure. Can't help but impact the degree of symmetry

2. In theory, one could choose to define a 5-4-3-1 as three suited. However, this is very nonstandard. (If this is the case, I'd really prefer them to change their nomenclature to bring stuff more in alignment with standard practice)

Don't suppose that anyone has a copy of their convention card? We could probably figure out whats what by looking at the other responses to 1♣

[JanM]

I think that 5431 is treated as 3-suited.

Ekeblad-Granovetter WBF card is here: http://www.ecatsbridge.com/documents/files...Granovetter.pdf

That should be essentially the same system.

[gwnn]

hrothgar, on Jun 16 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

Few couple

1. Interesting to see that this relay structure is showing strength (measured in HCP) so early in the relay structure. Can't help but impact the degree of symmetry

2. In theory, one could choose to define a 5-4-3-1 as three suited. However, this is very nonstandard. (If this is the case, I'd really prefer them to change their nomenclature to bring stuff more in alignment with standard practice)

Don't suppose that anyone has a copy of their convention card? We could probably figure out whats what by looking at the other responses to 1♣

I suppose for 3 suiters it's not that pressing to respect absolute symmetry. They're so rare that I think most players just count the steps anyway. (I could be just projecting the way I learned them)