[kenta89]

Me and my partner is thinking about playing a multi-like 1NT-opening, which shows either 15-17 balanced or a 6-card minor with 6-10 hcp.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this kind of opening, and has any good tips for responses. We were thinking something along the line of:

Pass= 0-7hcp
2♣= P/c or stayman
2♦= forcing or gameforcing stayman
2♥= 0-7 hcp 5+♥
2♠= 0-7 hcp 5+♠
2NT= 8-10 without 4+ major

So.. Any tips and suggestions??

[Phil]

Google "Woodson 2-way 1N overcalls" for something similar.

I don't want to be an accessory to such a monstrosity, but its a quiet morning around here.

2♣ = pass or correct to 2♦. Here's a twist: with a strong NT, opener bids 2♥. This allows you to sensibly get out when responder has a weak hand with a five card major. If responder wants to look for a 4 card major, you can find out with 2N or 3♣.

2♦ = also pass or correct, but has clubs (similar to multi). Opener also bids 2♥ with a strong NT. This helps when responder is has 3♣ - 4♣ and a 5 card major.

2♥ and 2♠ are interesting. I don't like your proposed uses, since it gets you past 2m. I'd make these one round forces and natural. 2N by opener confirms a strong NT.

2N should be a strong hand but asking. Opener bids 3m with a min, 3M with a max minor hand (♥=♣ and ♠=♦) and 3N is the strong NT.

3♣ should be pass or correct, but a hand good enough to go to 3N.

[hrothgar]

Phil, on Jun 9 2009, 06:30 PM, said:

Google "Woodson 2-way 1N overcalls" for something similar.

???

The Woodson two way NT was

1. A one NT opening
2. A bid that showed a balanced hand with either 10-12 or 16-18 HCP

This is simply a codified version of a comic NT

[Phil]

Richard is right of course. I was mixing up Woodson with Gardner.

[jdonn]

I don't know why you would want to do this, but given that you do some response structure like Phil's looks a lot better than yours. You have no real way to bid invitational hands with a major, your 2M responses can get you into a lot of trouble, and 2-way stayman is going to lose a lot of effectiveness if opener can't rebid a five card minor. You have also done nothing to help responder on minor suit hands, where most systems would at least be using 2♠ to make progress in that direction.

I also have a twist on Phil's twist. If responder responds in a minor suit pass or correct and opener has a strong notrump, he can bid a major suit pass or correct as well, so 2♠ is a maximum with four hearts, 2NT is a maximum with 4-4 in the majors. This also helps responder's lack of room to invite as well, I think.

[the hog]

This NT opening is virtually unplayable. There were a couple of pairs playing this some years ago in the club i played. They had huge tempo problems, but they always got the bid right. Hm......

[andy_h]

Not a fan, and never will be one, of 2-way 1NT's, whether it's an opening or an overcall. Your constructive bidding will be immensely impaired and you'll be way behind than others who have a natural 1NT opening. Also, some 6card minor hands (say 4D-6C or 1336 etc) at the correct vulnerability can be opened as a preempt which takes away way more space than a 1NT opening will do. Just think of it like, if you open 1NT with 6card minor hands, it gives the opponent's more space than a preempt will do even when partner makes a pass/correct bid too.

If you mainly play matchpoints, you might as well play all 2x openings as weak and give up strong 2C

[OleBerg]

andy_h, on Jun 10 2009, 09:47 AM, said:

If you mainly play matchpoints, you might as well play all 2x openings as weak and give up strong 2C

Tried that.

Very few problems, very little gain.

[gnasher]

I used to play weak twos in four suits, at IMPs, in serious events. I never bothered to keep track of the gains and losses, but disasters from havig to open very good hands at the one- or four-level were rare. The biggest problem was finding partners who were happy to play it.

An alternative is to use 2♣ as a weak two in either minor, and 2♦ as like a 2♣ opening. Opposite 2♣, you tend to pass a lot. That works better non-vulnerable.

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Jun 10 2009, 07:32 AM, said:

I never bothered to keep track of the gains and losses, but disasters from havig to open very good hands at the one- or four-level were rare.

Would you say that's because the hands themselves were uncommon, or because opening something else on a balanced 23 really allowed you to survive most of the time?

[gnasher]

jdonn, on Jun 10 2009, 05:05 PM, said:

Would you say that's because the hands themselves were uncommon, or because opening something else on a balanced 23 really allowed you to survive most of the time?

Mainly because of the rarity, I think. We used 3NT as 25+ balanced, so the biggest problem was 23-24 opposite 2-4. Of course, there are several other problems, so I'm not really sure how we used to get away with it. Maybe I've just forgotten all the bad results.

[FrancesHinden]

gnasher, on Jun 10 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

An alternative is to use 2♣ as a weak two in either minor, and 2♦ as like a 2♣ opening. Opposite 2♣, you tend to pass a lot. That works better non-vulnerable.

Unfortunately there aren't many places where that opening is legal.

I played 2C as a weak two in clubs for a while. WHile I didn't miss the strong opening that much, it's not really a very effective pre-empt.

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Jun 10 2009, 12:06 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jun 10 2009, 05:05 PM, said:

Would you say that's because the hands themselves were uncommon, or because opening something else on a balanced 23 really allowed you to survive most of the time?

Mainly because of the rarity, I think. We used 3NT as 25+ balanced, so the biggest problem was 23-24 opposite 2-4. Of course, there are several other problems, so I'm not really sure how we used to get away with it. Maybe I've just forgotten all the bad results.

When I have thought about this topic before, I didn't think the biggest loss was that partner would pass the opening bid, I thought it was that you could never catch up even if he responded. If you have a 23 count with six spades and it goes

1♠ 1NT
3♣ 3♥
3♠ 4♠

then you have to worry that partner couldn't cater to you having a hand this good, and either bidding or passing could simply be very wrong.

[benlessard]

IMO if you want to spice up your bridge life just play a wide weak nt range You We play 10-14 nv and 12-15 vul, with a proper responses setup its fully playable.

you will often play 1nt instead of defending you will play in moysian. Youll defend against akward contracts by opps. You will also have to fight for an overtrick to beat those in 2M (MP).

[TimG]

hrothgar, on Jun 9 2009, 11:00 AM, said:

Phil, on Jun 9 2009, 06:30 PM, said:

Google "Woodson 2-way 1N overcalls" for something similar.

???

The Woodson two way NT was

1. A one NT opening
2. A bid that showed a balanced hand with either 10-12 or 16-18 HCP

This is simply a codified version of a comic NT

Nitpick: Isn't a comic NT an overcall? The OP stated a "1NT-opener".