[H_KARLUK]

Scoring: IMP

---

South opens with a forcing bid and eventually plays in four spades. West attacks with top diamonds, and when Q drops on 2nd round he pauses.

What should West play at trick three ?

[nickf]

I need another clue.

Who dropped the Queen doubleton? Was it declarer or partner? I guess this influences the next card I play.

nickf
sydney

[aguahombre]

nickf, on Jun 4 2009, 12:06 AM, said:

I need another clue.

Who dropped the Queen doubleton? Was it declarer or partner? I guess this influences the next card I play.

nickf
sydney

no kidding

[H_KARLUK]

Sorry. Declarer.

[rfedrick]

H_KARLUK, on Jun 3 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

South opens with a forcing bid and eventually plays in four spades. West attacks with top diamonds, and when Q drops on 2nd round he pauses.

What should West play at trick three ?

The rather formal, 1950s-sounding English makes me think that this is just a hand lifted from an aged textbook (Reese?).

If it's not, and this deal really occurred in the last 48 hours, I apologise sincerely.

Anyway, i play a club (necessary if declarer has eg AQJxxx AQJ Qx Ax).

[Hanoi5]

♦J

[gnasher]

Does partner still have ♦9? If not, a club might cost if declarer has AQJ10xx AQx Q9 AQ - he can eliminate clubs and endplay me with the last diamond.

[rfedrick]

gnasher, on Jun 4 2009, 06:01 AM, said:

Does partner still have ♦9?  If not, a club might cost if declarer has AQJ10xx AQx Q9 AQ - he can eliminate clubs and endplay me with the last diamond.

true, but your construction requires a very precise hand for declarer (he needs the spade 10, and exactly ♦Q9).

Moreover, unless he also has the ♠2 (and remembers not to burn it on the first two rounds), he has to choose between the end-play and the simple heart finesse, a choice i would expect him to get wrong.

[kenrexford]

If standard count is being used, partner presumably played 3rd card and now either 1st or 2nd. Which?

[H_KARLUK]

Your patrner played 4 and 7 of diamonds. Declarer played 5 of diamonds then Q dropped.

[peachy]

Surely there were more clues at the table.
What was the auction?
What were the diamond spots played at trick 1 and 2?
Do we play standard or UDCA signals?

[gnasher]

rfedrick, on Jun 4 2009, 12:50 PM, said:

true, but your construction requires a very precise hand for declarer (he needs the spade 10, and exactly ♦Q9).

Well, there's a reasonable chance that I'd know whether declarer played ♦9 at trick one, and he's quite likely to have ♠10 to compensate for all the other gaps in his hand (assuming that he showed a game-force rather than something like an Acol Two).

Quote

Moreover, unless he also has the ♠2 (and remembers not to burn it on the first two rounds), he has to choose between the end-play and the simple heart finesse, a choice i would expect him to get wrong.

If trumps are 2-2, the endplay is as good as the heart finesse - whoever wins will be forced to play hearts anyway. If trumps are 3-1, he just takes a heart finesse instead of playing a diamond.

Edit: Deleted the nonsense about declarer having ♣AQJ

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2009-June-04, 09:05

[mikeh]

H_KARLUK, on Jun 3 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP

♠ K93 ♥ 7652 ♦ 863 ♣ J64 ♠ 75 ♥ KT4 ♦ AKJT2 ♣ 985

South opens with a forcing bid and eventually plays in four spades. West attacks with top diamonds, and when Q drops on 2nd round he pauses.

What should West play at trick three ?

When seeking an A/E opinion, please give the basic information that an A/E player would have at the table.

Thus, the bidding is, strangely enough, often of some use...

And knowing our defensive methods and precisely what cards partner played, and in which order, can be helpful.

As others have pointed out, it is possible that partner, with, say, the heart A, would play his lowest then his highest diamonds from xxx, to give suit preference.

At the table, we'd know if we had that agreement on defence...

If, as certainly seems plausible, this is a hand from an old text, posting the bidding as beginning with, for example, 2♠ would be a give-away... and in those days, when that style was popular, most Wests would pass.... these days, if S opened 1♣ (in a big club method) or 2♣, West might well bid... in which case inferences may be available from partner's actions or inactions.

And so on.

[jdonn]

I agree with playing a club, it seems often necessary and possibly urgent to set up a trick there. But true more details would be nice. For example, did south show a game force or just some sort of old fashioned 2 level force?

[kenrexford]

Partner started with 974. Seeing the Ace, he would presumably play 4 first. However, he had the option of playing 4-7 or 4-9. Technically, he also had the option of playing 7-9 when seeing the top-honor lead, but few would actually do that even if it means something.

The normal default is 4-7-9. So, the 4-7-9 play is probably least reliable as indicating a club card. But, 4-9 is fairly reliable as indicating a heart card, such that 4-7-9 can be fairly reliable that partner does not have the heart card, so long as partner is active in his thinking in this sort of situation.

So, I'd say that there is a slight inference that partner either has nothing to show or has a club card. At least, the club card is more likely than the heart card.

[the hog]

I agree with Ken's reasoning and therefore play a Club.
Hamdi has lifted this from somewhere. There are too many vowels for the vocabulary to be his.

[H_KARLUK]

Scoring: IMP

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It's unsafe to continue 3rd ♦ !
Declarer will ruff, play off ♣ AK. Cross to table with ♠9. Ruff ♣J. Low ♠ to K will complete elimination. Then he will be in a position to lead a ♥ from dummy, covering East's card as cheaply as possible. On winning trick West will have to choose between returning a ♥ into tenace and conceding a ruff&discard.

West should refuse to help elimination of side suits. A passive switch to a ♠ or ♣ at trick three sets contract, for declarer lacks entries in dummy to eliminate both minor suits.

He has to fall back on a straight ♥ finesse.

[H_KARLUK]

The_Hog, on Jun 4 2009, 10:03 PM, said:

I agree with Ken's reasoning and therefore play a Club.
Hamdi has lifted this from somewhere. There are too many vowels for the vocabulary to be his.

See a Doctor. Immediately ! You need help but I am busy a lot to have fun with Bridge game.

It was just a scoresheet from many years ago i kept.

I never browse your posts, why dont you try another direction ?

[the hog]

H_KARLUK, on Jun 5 2009, 09:28 AM, said:

I never browse your posts, why dont you try another direction ?

Really, then why did you reply to this one? rofl

[H_KARLUK]

The_Hog, on Jun 4 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

H_KARLUK, on Jun 5 2009, 09:28 AM, said:

I never browse your posts, why dont you try another direction ?

Really, then why did you reply to this one? rofl

I am topic starter. I do not want you in my topics. I never commented your topics.