[awm]

Suppose you are playing a strong club with limited openings. Typically an auction like:

1M - 1NT
3m

shows a shapely maximum with at least 5-5 in the bid suits (some people require 6-5). After this sequence, which continuations are forcing? Things get even trickier if the auction started:

1♥ - 1♠
3m

since now responder is unlimited and could easily have slam interest in any of the three suits named so far.

[se12sam]

I don't have a solution here. But I think the real problem is when the minor is diamonds.

After 1♥ - 1♠/1NT;   3♣, you could play 3♦ as a 4th suit GF (+slam-possibility) but if the 3m bid is 3♦, I guess it gets sticky.

[jdonn]

We did have this in the old tosr notes, which could translate to the other auctions.

1d – 1h/1s – 3c -...
• 3d: Natural preference, not forcing (discouraging if anything, opener generally passes).
• 3h/3s: If responder rebids his major, it is natural and forcing showing 6+. If responder bids the other major, it is ostensibly a try for 3nt asking for a tidbit in that suit. However, if responder then pulls 3nt, or does something strong sounding over other bids, he shows his rebid was an advance cuebid in support of one of opener's suits.
• 4c/4d: Natural slam try in support of opener, but suggesting the lack of ability to cuebid in the unbid major.

The main point being you can't have it both forcing and non-forcing for responder to rebid his major, but choosing between the two forcing seemed clearly more valuable, much for the same reasons 1♦ 1♥ 3♦ 3♥ is forcing in standard systems.

[JLOL]

Yeah obv play rebidding your major is forcing imo.

[lowerline]

A reasonable solution (IMHO):

After 1♥-1♠-3♦ (this is worse than the 3♣ rebid):

3♥ = (false) preference (not forcing)
3♠ = GF (weaker hands either give preference or bid 4♠)
4♣ = slam interest in ♥!!!
4♦ = slam interest in ♦
3NT/4M = to play

An interesting question is what does 4NT mean in this situation? How does it differ from 1♥-1♠-3♦-4♣-4X-4NT and from 1♥-1♠-3♦-4♦-4X-4NT?

Steven

[whereagles]

When I used to play precision, I had this rule

"When opener shows a limited 55,

4♣ = fit in the lower ranking suit, slam interest
4♦ = fit in the higher ranking suit, slam interest."

It worked well, though admitedly it didn't come out very often.

[hanp]

After 1S - 1NT - 3m I'd play:

3 new suit = natural, NF.
3S = NF.
4m = forcing
4 new suit = cue for spades.

After 1S- 1NT - 3H:

3S, 4H, 4S = NF
4C = good hand for hearts.
4D = good hand for spades.

After 1H - 1S - 3m:

3H = NF
3S = forcing, 6+
4m = forcing
4th suit = GF, may have support for hearts.

[jdonn]

hanp, on May 15 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

After 1S - 1NT - 3m I'd play:

3 new suit = natural, NF.
3S = NF.
4m = forcing
4 new suit = cue for spades.

After 1S- 1NT - 3H:

3S, 4H, 4S = NF
4C = good hand for hearts.
4D = good hand for spades.

After 1H - 1S - 3m:

3H = NF
3S = forcing, 6+
4m = forcing
4th suit = GF, may have support for hearts.

That makes so much sense that I'll ask you, how would you handle the 4th suit bid in the following two auctions?

1♦ 1♠
3♣ 3♥

1♦ 1♥
3♣ 3♠

[hanp]

Gameforcing and ambiguous. If possible I would try to choose an alternative (3M, 4C, 4D)

[kenrexford]

FWIW, this same issue comes up with 2/1 GF if 1M-P-1NT!-P-3bid is also treated as a Precision-style jump shift (2NT played as artificial).

One partner of mine and I play that the other minor (if Opener shows a minor as his second suit) is at least ostensibly a choice bid, and I think that makes sense.

So, if partner shows 5-5 in a major and a minor, Responder's bid of the new minor shows a raise of the minor (to at least the four-level) but invites Opener to bid four of his major if his major has sufficient body to play a 5-2 fit (with the comfort of support for his minor).

For example, assume 1♠-P-1NT-P-3♦. If Responder now bids 4♣, he has a raise of diamonds with tolerance for spades. Opener might well opt to try 4♠ because his suit has good body or might decide to offer a signoff at 4♦ because his spades are not that impressive. This allows us to consider the spade game without bypassing the possibly last safe landing zone of 4minor.

3♦ when Opener shows a major and clubs serves the same purpose, but this is more flexible. If Opener does rebid his major to suggest that spot, Responder can now indicate a different intention by not raising to game, for instance.

Strange, perhaps, that I of all people would advocate a game-before-slam approach here, but there you go!