[Codo]

I think that most experts prefer fitjumps in new suits. But if you and your partner want to continue to play splinters even in side suits, that is just slightly inferior.


After 1 ♥ (1♠) has 3 ♣ many different meanings. I doubt that there is a consensus, but guess for the majority it is a fitjump. TO me it is a strong jump, because 2 club had been non forcing and I want not to double with strong onesuiters here. But this is not mainstream at all. (But I like it).

If 3 ♣ is a singelton after a jacoby raise, it is still one after a jacoby raise after an opponents bid. You may discuss that jacoby is not the best use for 2 NT anymore, or that you want a sepcific set of rules but without discussion there is no change.

[whereagles]

kgr, on May 14 2009, 06:18 PM, said:

Is it correct that experts - after opps overcall - don't splinter in a 3th suit? Jumps are fit then?

Please note that even world class experts very often disagree strongly with how a particular hand should be bid.

There are situations where there's an action one might call a "standard", but those don't happen all the time. Perhaps even not most of the time!!

[gwnn]

No splinters except in their suits is a very intelligent and useful agreement, I think.

[cyc0002002]

Is 4♦ showing too much defensive strength?
If partner double their five something. I don't think I will pass

[jdonn]

Codo, on May 15 2009, 01:25 AM, said:

If 3 ♣ is a singelton after a jacoby raise, it is still one after a jacoby raise after an opponents bid. You may discuss that jacoby is not the best use for 2 NT anymore, or that you want a sepcific set of rules but without discussion there is no change.

You are saying without discussion 1♥ (2♦) 2NT is still jacoby, game forcing heart raise? Strongly disagree.

[skjaeran]

jdonn, on May 15 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

Codo, on May 15 2009, 01:25 AM, said:

If 3 ♣ is a singelton after a jacoby raise, it is still one after a jacoby raise after an opponents bid. You may discuss that jacoby is not the best use for 2 NT anymore, or that you want a sepcific set of rules but without discussion there is no change.

You are saying without discussion 1♥ (2♦) 2NT is still jacoby, game forcing heart raise? Strongly disagree.

Probably depends on where you play.

Over here most play 2NT as inv+ heart raise.

[jdonn]

skaeran, on May 15 2009, 12:52 PM, said:

jdonn, on May 15 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

Codo, on May 15 2009, 01:25 AM, said:

If 3 ♣ is a singelton after a jacoby raise, it is still one after a jacoby raise after an opponents bid. You may discuss that jacoby is not the best use for 2 NT anymore, or that you want a sepcific set of rules but without discussion there is no change.

You are saying without discussion 1♥ (2♦) 2NT is still jacoby, game forcing heart raise? Strongly disagree.

Probably depends on where you play.

Over here most play 2NT as inv+ heart raise.

I can believe there are places where it's standard as a heart raise. I doubt there are places where it's standard as a game forcing heart raise.

[mtvesuvius]

jdonn, on May 15 2009, 02:11 PM, said:

skaeran, on May 15 2009, 12:52 PM, said:

jdonn, on May 15 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

Codo, on May 15 2009, 01:25 AM, said:

If 3 ♣ is a singelton after a jacoby raise, it is still one after a jacoby raise after an opponents bid. You may discuss that jacoby is not the best use for 2 NT anymore, or that you want a sepcific set of rules but without discussion there is no change.

You are saying without discussion 1♥ (2♦) 2NT is still jacoby, game forcing heart raise? Strongly disagree.

Probably depends on where you play.

Over here most play 2NT as inv+ heart raise.

I can believe there are places where it's standard as a heart raise. I doubt there are places where it's standard as a game forcing heart raise.

I generally play it as a GF ♥ raise, making the Cuebid as Invitational, however, I don't think this is standard... at least not in the US.

[Codo]

jdonn, on May 16 2009, 02:07 AM, said:

Codo, on May 15 2009, 01:25 AM, said:

If 3 ♣ is a singelton after a jacoby raise, it is still one after a jacoby raise after an opponents bid. You may discuss that jacoby is not the best use for 2 NT anymore, or that you want a sepcific set of rules but without discussion there is no change.

You are saying without discussion 1♥ (2♦) 2NT is still jacoby, game forcing heart raise? Strongly disagree.

I did not, but he did. (What after 1H-(1S)-Jac2NT-(pas)-3C; is 3C still singleton?)

And when he plays that 2 NT is still Jacoby and did not discuss more details, then he should stick to the rules he have. sSometimes you have to point out the obvious...

[jdonn]

You're right I see it now, missed it before.

[Mbodell]

downagain, on May 14 2009, 12:26 AM, said:

I was in the same situation and decided to bid 4♦.. Good we discussed these kind of jumps a few rounds before . I thought it was the ideal hand to make this kind of descriptive bid.

Now the bidding continued:

1♠ - (2♥) - 4♦ - (4♠)
5♥ - (Pass) - ?

What do you do now? Does 5♥ deny a club control? Does it deny a first round ♣ control? Does it ask for a ♥ control? Or is it just a general slam try?

(Sorry for hijacking your topic.. but think it's quite related)

If the 5♥ bid was made over 4♦ with no 4♠ I'd play it as xx in hearts and the rest covered and bid 7♠. But once they bid 4♠ this is off and needs to be a cue or general slam try I think. I'm not sure what partner needs, and maybe my ♥ void is enough, but given the earlier 4♦ and given the opponents bidding I think I just bid 5♠.