[bambi1]

hi!

Can someone explain to me why players alter their skill levels (sometimes daily). What is the purpose of this? Why do some players have "novice" (when they are not), and "expert" (when they are not)? Who are they trying to fool? and why?

[csdenmark]

For long time I had my level as 'novice' simply to be able to reject any complaint for wrong play. Additionally I have always been fascinated of that word. As I had too many complaints - I have now permanently changed my level away from that.

To me skill level is an obsolete feature - what matters are name and country. As I am very restrictive here - I assumed I was wrong in putting up a clear wrong skill level myself.

As TD I think you know why some changes their level daily!

[1eyedjack]

Some tourneys auto-reject your application to play if you advertise a skill-level outside of specified permitted boundaries. What a ridiculous waste of time. Anyway, to get around that players just change their advertised skill level. Sometimes they forget to change it back again after the tourney is over, so it appears to fluctuate.

[Free]

It's a silly feature which is often abused. Most expert players use "Advanced", because the expert-tag has a bad reputation (because some noobs use it). Others just don't want partner and opps to expect a lot, so they put novice or beginner. Some are just honest, but there's no checkbox to show weither your skill level is honest or not... I've even seen goldstars play as novice, come on, it's ridiculous!

[bambi1]

I have a Great IDEA!

Why not tell the truth? And if that's not possible then maybe put "private" skill level.

That way you won't be insulting the "experts" or "novices".

Anyway, I was just curious why players chose to misrepresent themselves.

[Flame]

I think many people set their level for the wrong ressons, most of the time they put higher level then they are because either they think they are better then they really are or they like others to think they are better, on the other side there are people who think its better to undervalue thier level because they do not want to barg about being good, there is also a big factor for the name of the level, people wont put expert if they are not considered experts in their counties.
I take it differently, for me the level is just a way to meet other people of more or less same skill or atleast know who you're playing with, I put expert even tho i consider myself low expert in my country, but on BBO im better then the avarage expert, so puting advance will not help anyone, im not trying to fix the world by puting adv and hoping everyone will do the same, just adjust my level to the BBO level scale.

[Trpltrbl]

Flame, on May 21 2004, 11:24 AM, said:

I think many people set their level for the wrong ressons, most of the time they put higher level then they are because either they think they are better then they really are or they like others to think they are better, on the other side there are people who think its better to undervalue thier level because they do not want to barg about being good, there is also a big factor for the name of the level, people wont put expert if they are not considered experts in their counties.
I take it differently, for me the level is just a way to meet other people of more or less same skill or atleast know who you're playing with, I put expert even tho i consider myself low expert in my country, but on BBO im better then the avarage expert, so puting advance will not help anyone, im not trying to fix the world by puting adv and hoping everyone will do the same, just adjust my level to the BBO level scale.

I agree.
But it only takes a few hands to find out who is really what.
There a very very many experts on BBO, who in real life play at lowest level.
But just because they have played for long time they think they are, or at least should be.
Worldclass players are only very very few, and I still think it is a pdship that is worldclass, but there are a few that are so good they can get that tittle.
And I can count them on 1 hand.

But whatever makes them feel good about themselfs. I just put little note in their remarks section, to remind me what they really are. Easy to keep track of.

Mike

[Flame]

I also write notes for most players i play with, my notes are usually about beheviour, and skill, also if i someone is leaving in the middle of a game ,he/she is sent to my enemy list.

[flytoox]

bambi1, on May 21 2004, 03:06 PM, said:

Why not tell the truth?

Coz few really knows what the truth is!

[aisha759]

Hi Bambi;
It seems to me you got all your answers here All of them are reasons why players change skill levels back and forth. I am intermediate, but change to "novice" when I am extremely angry at myself and think about quitting
I do have a question for Csdenmark though.... why are name and country more important for you than skill level? I suppose the flag might be of importance, as you may prefer to play with someone from the same country as yours, but name?
You are free to choose who you want to play with, please dont get me wrong, I was just curious as to why you were that strict about those options (which can also be easily changed

Aisha

[csdenmark]

Aisha I think not so difficult to understand. I try to assure I am dealing with serious people not trying to fool others. So simple is that.

If you will be more interested I have some web-sites providing a bit more information.

http://groups.msn.co.../incognito.msnw

http://groups.msn.co...sion/bboid.msnw

[1eyedjack]

csdenmark, on May 22 2004, 07:21 AM, said:

Aisha I think not so difficult to understand. I try to assure I am dealing with serious people not trying to fool others. So simple is that.

If you will be more interested I have some web-sites providing a bit more information.

http://groups.msn.co.../incognito.msnw

http://groups.msn.co...sion/bboid.msnw

Claus

You (and anyone else) are perfectly at liberty to choose to fraternise only with those BBO members who appear to disclose their true name (although how you know that their expressed name is "true" is beyond me). However the web links that you mention give the impression that withholding the name is a violation of BBO site policy/rules/code of conduct, and I think it important to put the record straight on that front. It is not.

[bambi1]

csdenmark, on May 21 2004, 01:08 PM, said:

For long time I had my level as 'novice' simply to be able to reject any complaint for wrong play. Additionally I have always been fascinated of that word. As I had too many complaints - I have now permanently changed my level away from that.

To me skill level is an obsolete feature - what matters are name and country. As I am very restrictive here - I assumed I was wrong in putting up a clear wrong skill level myself.

As TD I think you know why some changes their level daily!

Many people change their country daily as well as their skill level! What now?

[inquiry]

I don't know why ohter people change, but my skill level waffles between Advanced and expert. And once recently, I dropped it to intermediate. When I play particularily badly, aka really dumb plays as opposed to my usual careless, I drop my skill level to warn my partners that my play is off. When I am thinking clearly, and making nice bids/ plays I raise it up. I see no harm, as the self-indicated skill levels are meaningless anyway, at least people will have an assessment of how I think I am currently playing.

Ben

[csdenmark]

bambi1, on May 22 2004, 03:31 PM, said:

Many people change their country daily as well as their skill level!  What now?

I normally reject them for partnership. I inform such partners I will be ready any time as soon they have corrected their ID. Unfortunately this often causes me to refuse partners which I would like to make a partnership with as it is not that easy to find partners for systems like Meckwell, Viking etc. I normally accept the UN flag and in that period all used the spanish flag I accepted that too.

1eyedjack, on May 22 2004, 03:26 PM, said:

Claus

You (and anyone else) are perfectly at liberty to choose to fraternise only with those BBO members who appear to disclose their true name (although how you know that their expressed name is "true" is beyond me).  However the web links that you mention give the impression that withholding the name is a violation of BBO site policy/rules/code of conduct, and I think it important to put the record straight on that front.  It is not.

yes it is Jack - but BBO is not that strict about this topic as I am. We have now Uday's word that it is not acceptable for 'golden stars' to hide their identity. For the content of my web-sites I am the solely responsible person.

[1eyedjack]

csdenmark, on May 22 2004, 09:37 AM, said:

1eyedjack, on May 22 2004, 03:26 PM, said:

Claus

You (and anyone else) are perfectly at liberty to choose to fraternise only with those BBO members who appear to disclose their true name (although how you know that their expressed name is "true" is beyond me).  However the web links that you mention give the impression that withholding the name is a violation of BBO site policy/rules/code of conduct, and I think it important to put the record straight on that front.  It is not.

yes it is Jack - but BBO is not that strict about this topic as I am. We have now Uday's word that it is not acceptable for 'golden stars' to hide their identity. For the content of my web-sites I am the solely responsible person.

I am glad to note that you accept responsibility for the content of your websites. Perhaps you will then act on that responsibility to correct any misrepresentations of BBO policy.

"Starred" names are priviledged. That priviledge comes at a cost, one part of which is loss of anonymity. Your site implies that it is contrary to acceptable conduct on BBO to conceal your identity. Your site makes no distinction between stars and other players and fails to acknowledge that it is a personal view, but condemn such practices by reference to acceptable codes in the passive tense, suggesting that it is by reference to an objective test, not a subjective one.

Fred expressed BBO policy in the following message, and I stand by my earlier post in this thread.

http://bridgebase.lunarpages.com/~bridge2/...indpost&p=20418

[csdenmark]

My web-sites I have the responsibility for. The content I am ready to discuss with anybody who have signed up. Then we discuss there in the correct forum. BBO Forum is not the place to discuss my web-sites - at least not for me. The links were only provided for Aisha as an additional information for her to be able to understand my views - if she was interested in such.

If you are asked for your name - it is a natural failing of decent human behavior to deny basic personal information unless you have very good reasons - something like violation of your human rights.

I can no longer find the document "Rules for these sites". I dont know why or where they have hidden it or maybe I have not been careful enough in my search. Sorry Jack I am unable to quote from it.

If you go through all the posts made by Uday and Fred you will see this topic has been discussed in several threads. Fred has there expressed a different view than the post you refer to.

[Ulrich]

I have been reading this debate with great interest and have very important questions for Claus.
How do you know that the name someone gives is their real name?
If it is not their real name what difference does it make if they want to use their bbo nickname?

Sincerely yours,

Freiherr Ulrich von Lichtenstein MSPEM

(Member of the society for the preservation of European Monarchies)
(You guys can call me Ulli for short)

[csdenmark]

Ulrich, on May 23 2004, 04:18 AM, said:

I have been reading this debate with great interest and have very important questions for Claus.
How do you know that the name someone gives is their real name?

That is not so difficult - give it a try yourself!

[1eyedjack]

csdenmark, on May 22 2004, 11:27 AM, said:

My web-sites I have the responsibility for. The content I am ready to discuss with anybody who have signed up. Then we discuss there in the correct forum. BBO Forum is not the place to discuss my web-sites - at least not for me. The links were only provided for Aisha as an additional information for her to be able to understand my views - if she was interested in such.

If you are asked for your name - it is a natural failing of decent human behavior to deny basic personal information unless you have very good reasons - something like violation of your human rights.

I can no longer find the document "Rules for these sites". I dont know why or where they have hidden it or maybe I have not been careful enough in my search. Sorry Jack I am unable to quote from it.

If you go through all the posts made by Uday and Fred you will see this topic has been discussed in several threads. Fred has there expressed a different view than the post you refer to.

I don't think that I can get closer to expressing Fred's view than by providing a link to his own post. If you think that my expressed views differ then you will have to be more specific.

If someone has chosen not to reveal his name, it is a natural failing of decent human behaviour to ask for it unless you have very good reasons.