[mtvesuvius]

Scoring: MP

Who gets the blame?

1♥ - 2♦
2♠ - 3♥
3♠ - 3NT
4♦ - 4♠
5♣ - 5♦
6♥ - Pass

We play 2/1 and 3NT was Serious. Have at this LOL auction.

Playing the hand, when Declarer led a ♥ from dummy,
East flew with the A♥ from Ax. And, West, having some fun dropped the Queen, giving a little false hope.
The opponents can be so cruel...

---

[kenrexford]

Why does Responder think he's serious? No heart honors, no spade honors, and a stiff spade without length in hearts? Only second-round diamond control? Ugh!

The 4♠ call by Responder was insane. He kind of forced on himself bidding beyond game, as he would otherwise be denying for partner any club control, when looking at the A-K. So, that's not really an overbid as much as a necessary result of insane bidding earlier. But why 4♠, which must sound to Opener like a spade card, not shortness? Why not just cue 5♣ like a contextually less insane person?

Then, when Opener declines to use 4NT at this point, instead of just cuebidding his club shortness, how on earth can Responder cue again?!?!? That's just sick.

As for Opener, the only question I'd have is why he did not cue 4♣ earlier, but perhaps the partnership does not cue shortness in the fourth suit (a bad idea, IMO). Although the fault lies with Responder, who bids like he's a nutcase, a 4♣ cue by Opener would have at least allowed Responder room to bid his hand out in his insanity but below game. That extra space might have allowed someone to bid 4NT to find out that the heart suit was in serious jeopardy.

[dicklont]

I give it 50-50.
South started with a reverse, where he should have bid 2♥ to show a minimum hand.
After that reverse North was right to show a positive hand, but his bad trump support should stop him from bidding higher than 4♥.

[kenrexford]

dicklont, on Apr 23 2009, 10:14 AM, said:

I give it 50-50.
South started with a reverse, where he should have bid 2♥ to show a minimum hand.
After that reverse North was right to show a positive hand, but his bad trump support should stop him from bidding higher than 4♥.

That's a tough analysis on South. First of all, we don't know whether this reverse actually shows extras for this partnership. Even if it does, the existence of a stronger Opener does not make Responder's hand better. He has the same non-fitting GF hand he started with. If the reverse does show extras, then 3NT literally just about forced slam, whereas a simple cue would not in any way negate the fact that Opener has shown (if he has shown) a very strong hand such that slam may well be pursued even opposite a courtesy cue. Once Responder does bid 3NT, however, I think he's boxed in to a cue because of the club problem.

WARNING: The rest that follows is probably "typical Rexford insanity."

On a related note, however. If the partnership does have this 2♠ reverse as showing extras, I think a better start is possible. Responder, knowing that Opener will be forced out of a reverse unless he has extras, might as well start with a 2♣ response. He really wants to hear a 2♦ rebid, as it saves a level of bidding, and 2♣ is not a meaningful distortion (at least to me). That enables a 2♦ rebid by Opener in practice (IMO), which does in fact save the space desired.

If that had happened, the pair might have found out quickly that the heart suit was ugly and stopped at game without any doubt that this was right.

[ArtK78]

Up until the WARNING in his second post, I agree with Ken completely.

100% of the blame to North.

[pclayton]

2♠ is fine. Many are making the 2 level reverses as shape showing and not promising a lot extra.

3♠ I suppose is forced, but I really recommend you use 3♠ as serious / non serious for hearts. That way, you don't have this 'ambiguous' 3♠ cue under 3N.

Serious 3N??!! No trump honors and secondary honors in the minors? 4♣ is indicated.

4♦ is forced due to the Serious 3N.

4♠? Awful.

The balance of the calls really had no bearing on the final result.

100% North.

[pclayton]

kenrexford, on Apr 23 2009, 07:24 AM, said:

WARNING: The rest that follows is probably "typical Rexford insanity."

Ken, just put a surgeon general's warning in your profile.

[neilkaz]

100% to North here who has weak trumps and nothing to help either of partner's majors. 3NT serious (serious error !)

[Lobowolf]

90-10, North.

3♥ (hopefully stronger than 4♥) AND serious 3NT AND going beyond game to cue 4♠ with a singleton and no trump cards?

I do give a little bit to north for bypassing a keycard ask missing the A, Q, and J of trump and lacking first round control of clubs (although, obviously, this is mitigated by South's presumed assumption about North's hand, i.e. North's bidding like he has enough to cover most if not all of that; nevertheless, 4NT seems more prudent to me than the 5♣ bid).

[gnasher]

If the reverse showed extras, would North then be worth 3NT?

[jdonn]

North is a minimum game force with terrible trumps no matter what range his partner has shown. I blame him at least 95%, since it is also a little true that south could have simplified things with keycard.

[hanp]

1H = normal

2D = normal

2S = I play this shows extras. On this hand that would solve all problems since north would splinter and south would sign off. I will assume that 2S did not show extras.

3H = normal.

3S = normal (though I don't like this, if you play serious better to use 3S imo).

3NT = gross overbid.

4D = I am not familiar with this cuebidding style. I would cue 4C which should slow north down a bit (although a north that bids 3NT and then 4S...)

4S = another overbid.

5C = I don't understand why one would not ask for keycards. How else can you find the grand, because you are going to at least a small slam.

5D = north was hopeless before and can't fix it.

6H = giving up on 7?

[kenrexford]

gnasher, on Apr 23 2009, 01:09 PM, said:

If the reverse showed extras, would North then be worth 3NT?

If I and my wife each have $13 in our wallets, we each have $13 dollars in our wallets and $26 combined. We might have a decent dinner for that.

If my wife gets another $5 from a lottery ticket, and now has $18 in her wallet, we as a couple have more to spend and might get an appetizer. But, I still have the same $13 in my wallet.

Or, as another way of looking at this, "Serious 3NT" is not a bid that says, "Partner, you have a really great hand, and that makes me happy." Partner already knows that. He's looking at his own hand.

[mike777]

mtvesuvius, on Apr 23 2009, 09:40 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

Who gets the blame?

1♥ - 2♦
2♠ - 3♥
3♠ - 3NT
4♦ - 4♠
5♣ - 5♦
6♥ - Pass

We play 2/1 and 3NT was Serious. Have at this LOL auction.

Playing the hand, when Declarer led a ♥ from dummy,
East flew with the A♥ from Ax. And, West, having some fun dropped the Queen, giving a little false hope.
The opponents can be so cruel...

---

North 90-99% really dislike 3nt and then 4s..

[Codo]

When you play that 2 ♠ shows extras, there is no discussion, south is to blame.

When you play that 2 ♠ just show shape, it is trickier. South never limited his hand, but otoh his hand grew with every bid from partner.

When it is mandatory to cuebid 3 Spade after 3 Heart, 3 NT is serious? 100 % to north.

[gnasher]

gnasher, on Apr 23 2009, 07:09 PM, said:

If the reverse showed extras, would North then be worth 3NT?

Disregarding the actual hand (which looked better yesterday than it does today), what I meant to ask was this:

Suppose that facing a minimum opener, a serious 3NT would show about 16+. That puts the miniumum for a 3NT bid at roughly the midpoint between a minimum 2♦ response and a hand that would go past 4♥ on its own. The range for bidding 3NT but not going past game is the same width as the range for a non-serious try.

Facing reversing values, does a serious 3NT still show 16+? Or is the lower limit reduced to the midpoint between a minimum and a hand that would now move past 4♥ on its own?

[hanp]

It is less strong then for me, but not much. At least a very nice 14.

[whereagles]

If South's reverse is normal on a min, then North's 3NT seems a bit on the optimistic side.

If not, then 3NT it's a little optimistic, although less

[Trinidad]

Even if the reverse shows something extra, I think that 2♠ is only a slight overbid. South is looking at a hand with prime cards and he knows that there is at least some fit since he has three diamonds. So South has good reason to be optimistic in the auction.

North's 2/1 was perfect, but since he doesn't have more than the values for a 2/1, and actually only negative factors, all his other actions were overbids.

Conclusion: 100% North.

Rik

[zhams]

maybe like this :
1♥——2♦
2♠——3♥
4♣——4♥