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Open or pass? How close is the call?

Poll: Playing SAYC, would you open this hand? (43 member(s) have cast votes)

Playing SAYC, would you open this hand?

  1. 1[DI] WTP? (2 votes [4.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.65%

  2. 1[DI], but it's close (4 votes [9.30%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.30%

  3. Pass, but it's close (5 votes [11.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.63%

  4. Pass WTP? (32 votes [74.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 74.42%

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#1 User is offline   se12sam 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 07:31

Scoring: IMP

Edit: You are South (dealer)
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 07:35

easy pass for me. I'd open 1♦ with ♠x and ♥KTx, but that would be a close one.
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#3 User is offline   georgeac 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 07:52

I open 1♦ WTP?
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#4 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 08:20

Pass, and this is a WTP.

Move the king of spades into one of the other suits,
and you can open, and most likely I would, since I
have an easy rebid.
If you would also switch the minor suit length, I would
pass due to the problematic rebid.

If you open and cite the rule of 20 as defence, I would
suggest that you go back to the original text and reread,
I am pretty sure, you will find, that the text does not
recommend opening this hand.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#5 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 08:22

In my old style this is an easy 1♦ bid, now it is a pass buts its close!
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#6 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 08:49

Clear pass. Give me a small spade and let the king be in either of the other three suits instead of a small card and I open.

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#7 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 08:54

A good rule is that singleton honors are only worth half of what they are worth otherwise. For a singleton Ace, count 3 instead of 4.

This hand is then only worth about 9.5 HCP, which is not nearly enough for an opening bid.

Conclusion: Easy pass.
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#8 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 09:06

One positive to opening is that you have an easy rebid. The glaring negative is that minor openings based on minor two-suiters have a wild-ass range, primarily because opening 2♣ with a minor two-suiter is so horrifying. Extending the range too far into the weak realm is not ideal.

Had the hand been 3154 shape, I'd be less concerned, because I could stomach a 1♦-P-1♥-P-1♠ sequence.

All of that said, FWIW, this type of problem is alleviated if you elect to use an intermediate 2♦ opening for the minors (maybe 14-16 or so). That splits up the minor range and allows a 1♦...2♣ sequence to show about 10+ to 13-. One of the reasons I like that convention is that you can get in with this sort of hand comfortably.
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#9 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 09:28

This is an automatic pass in a standard method. Point counters should understand and add to their arsenal an appreciation of in-and-out valuation. Honours in long(ish) suits are worth more than the same honours in short suits... for an elementary reason. Points don't take tricks.... cards do. Having high cards in long suits maximizes the chance that you will be able to establish and cash the small cards, after using your high cards to drive out or defeat the opps's high cards.

So a stiff K is not a good offensive card... at least, not initially... it may revalue as the auction progresses, but at this stage, it is almost worthless.

Unless you play an intentionally and abnormal light opening style (which rarely works in a standard based approach because the opening bid requirements become so broad that many constructive auctions become problematic), this is a clear pass.
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#10 User is offline   Lobowolf 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 09:33

I'd pass, and I don't think it's a particularly close call.
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#11 User is offline   bill1157 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 09:42

a 2♦ opening has alot of merit NV

Bill
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#12 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 09:51

bill1157, on Apr 15 2009, 10:42 AM, said:

a 2♦ opening has alot of merit NV

Bill

Not in my opinion... and I am a big fan of the weak 2♦... the idea of perpetrating that call with this hand makes me ill :)
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#13 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 10:16

mikeh, on Apr 15 2009, 05:28 PM, said:

This is an automatic pass in a standard method. Point counters should understand and add to their arsenal an appreciation of in-and-out valuation. Honours in long(ish) suits are worth more than the same honours in short suits.

To prove Mike's point:

K&R Hand Evaluator
K
10xx
QJ9xx
AJxx

9.95

...

x
K10x
QJ9xx
AJxx

12.05

...

and even better:

x
10xx
KQJ9x
AJxx

13.15

http://www.jeffgolds...cgi-bin/knr.cgi

Roland
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#14 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 15:46

Pass for me... It's not too close.
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#15 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 17:52

This is a totally obvious pass and you could even strengthen the hand a little and I still wouldn't open it.

I hate opening light with both minors anyway.
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#16 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-April-15, 20:30

pass
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#17 User is offline   mohitz 

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Posted 2009-April-16, 00:10

Obvious pass for me
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#18 User is offline   petergreat 

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Posted 2009-April-16, 04:03

Bad singleton ♠K, poor texture, only 11 points, pass without thinking.

Okay, the last part was a lie, at least I did waste effort counting out: 1, 2, 3, ... , 11, Pass.
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