[Trinidad]

whereagles, on Apr 8 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Apr 8 2009, 09:26 AM, said:

whereagles, on Apr 8 2009, 04:24 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Apr 8 2009, 03:33 AM, said:

Well Josh, personally I don't play Drury. If I did I would agree with you. 3S for me shows a more shapely raise, whereas 2NT would be a squarer raise with just under opening strength. Can't speak for Rich, of course.

If you don't play Drury, I guess opener is barred from opening 1M on 4 cards, no?

Not on a good 4 carder.

You mean you're ok with driving to the 3 level on what could be a 4-3 fit?

How would that happen?

Now I happen to like Drury a lot, but I don't see how you will get in a 4-3 fit at the 3 level if you don't play Drury.

As long as the PH responder doesn't jump to the 3 level with 3 card support, little can go wrong.

If responder has 3 card support and less than invitational values, you will be playing 2M after 1M-2M. If he does have a maximum pass with 3 cards, he will either:

- bid 1NT (semiforcing) and he gets to play there.
- bid a natural 2/1 (5+ cards) and gets to play it there.

Of course, if opponents still enter the bidding, he can still bid 2M, but after that, it is opener who is in charge. As long as opener won't go to the 3 level, responder shouldn't either.

Rik

[the hog]

Rik summarises it nicely, Nuno.

[jdonn]

Seems like too many raises to me, but whatever.

[whereagles]

The_Hog, on Apr 9 2009, 01:08 AM, said:

Rik summarises it nicely, Nuno.

Well, I understand. But my point is, with a 3 card inv raise:

- If you bid a 2/1 intending to show support later, you run the risk of playing in the 2/1 suit, sometimes without a fit, when a major fit might be available.

- If you bid 1NT, you give 4th player the chance to bid 2m, which might well be raised to 3 by your RHO and you'd face an unpleasant guess. Ok, so it's not likely 4th player bids, given he's a passed hand. But those things happen and one must have the tools to cope with them.

By showing support immediately, Drury solves both situations, for the small price of a natural 2/1 in clubs.

[Trinidad]

whereagles, on Apr 9 2009, 07:53 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Apr 9 2009, 01:08 AM, said:

Rik summarises it nicely, Nuno.

Well, I understand. But my point is, with a 3 card inv raise:

- If you bid a 2/1 intending to show support later, you run the risk of playing in the 2/1 suit, sometimes without a fit, when a major fit might be available.

There must be a fit in responder's suit. You cannot (at least should not) open on a four card suit and not have something in every other suit.

What is a real problem is the fact that you may get to the wrong partscore. If opener has a subminimum with a five card major, you will end up playing in the 8 card minor fit, rather than the 8 card major fit.

whereagles, on Apr 9 2009, 07:53 AM, said:

- If you bid 1NT, you give 4th player the chance to bid 2m, which might well be raised to 3 by your RHO and you'd face an unpleasant guess. Ok, so it's not likely 4th player bids, given he's a passed hand. But those things happen and one must have the tools to cope with them.

Yes, here you are right. This is possible (and actually occurs). That is one reason why I like Drury. But I wouldn't state that "one must have the tools to cope".

whereagles, on Apr 9 2009, 07:53 AM, said:

By showing support immediately, Drury solves both situations, for the small price of a natural 2/1 in clubs.

My most important reason for playing Drury is that it is a very anonymous game invitation, where you aren't even forced to the 3 level. The auction Pass-1M; 2♣-4M is one of my favorites. You are more than half a trick ahead of Pass-1M; 1NT-2x; 3M-4M.

Rik

[lexlogan]

I play Reverse Fit Drury, so 3-card and 4-card limit raises normally go through Drury. I tell my partners that pass-1S-3S is approximately the same as 1S-4S by an unpassed hand: 5 trumps, a singelton, maybe two cover cards.
Pass-1S-2NT is a ear opening bid with 5 spades or 4 very good spades.