[mtvesuvius]

Playing precision (1♣ = 16+), at IMPs V vs NV, you hold:

♠Axxxx
♥AKx
♦KJ9x
♣x

You choose to open 1♠ and partner bids 1NT forcing... Your bid?

Also... What are your agreements about jump-shifting by a limited hand?

[rbforster]

In my style, this is a clear 2♦ rebid. Jump shifts to the 3 level show a good hand (say 13-15 if you open 10-15), and lots of shape. Some people do this on good 5/5 hands, but I feel like 6/5 should be more typical. A jump rebid (3♠) would show a similar maximum, a 7+ suit, and shortness.

[Phil]

2♦. Be happy your range is 10/11-15 instead of 11-18

[Lobowolf]

2D...jump-shifts are more distributional; HCP maxes aren't enough. As Phil implies, it's a lot more precise than 1S-1NT; 2D in standard American or 2/1.

[neilkaz]

2♦ as I want more distibution and playing strength for 3♦ even playing Precision.

[JLOL]

Of course bid 2D dude.

[mtvesuvius]

OK, Sorry to post this. LOL. I posted this to settle an argument. Partner held KJx Qxx Qxx QTxx and bid 2♠ over 2♦... Making 5. He blamed me for not bidding 3♦, and played me for a minimum hand...

This was posted to print out and show partner. LOL. Thanks for your wtp responses

[jdonn]

Why didn't he just raise 1♠ to 2♠?

[Gerben42]

Quote

Why didn't he just raise 1♠ to 2♠?

Because now he had a way to attempt a transfer of guilt.

The correct auction on this hand is:

1♠ - 2♠
3♦* - 4♠

* I want to try for game and need some help in ♦.

[whereagles]

mtvesuvius, on Mar 30 2009, 03:55 AM, said:

OK, Sorry to post this. LOL. I posted this to settle an argument. Partner held KJx Qxx Qxx QTxx and bid 2♠ over 2♦... Making 5. He blamed me for not bidding 3♦, and played me for a minimum hand...

This was posted to print out and show partner. LOL. Thanks for your wtp responses

Why bother playing precision with someone who doesn't even know the system?

3♦ shows a good, but limited, 55.

With your hand I would actually open 1♣. The superb controls and boss suit make it worth an upgrade.

[ArtK78]

The worst part of playing Precision is the 1♣ opening (OK - the 2♣ opening is tied for first). On the other hand, the best part of playing Precision is the ability to limit your opening bid. I would not upgrade this hand to a 1♣ opening and I would be happy that I could open a limited opening bid available.

Reaching game on the hand should not be a problem.

[whereagles]

Even with the latest high-tech gadgetry, the precision 2♣ opener beats any other precision opener for cumbersomeness.

That being said, I don't see why you call 1♣ the worst part of precision. If you enter asking bids/relays sequences, the bidding accuracy second to none.

On the given hand, holding spades makes you quite resistant to preemption and you wouldn't bother if pard doubles opps, given you have nice defense. If the majors were reversed, I might open 1♥. As it is, 1♣ is certainly fine.

[brianshark]

2♦ does not show a minimum. It denies a shapely maximum. So you can still have a non-shapely maximum or a shapely non-maximum.

I would open this 1♠, not 1♣ and in fact I find myself downgrading far more hands into 1x openings than I do upgrade hands to 1♣ openings playing strong club.

(Also, why is this in B/I forum rather than non-standard systems forum?)

[rbforster]

mtvesuvius, on Mar 29 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

Partner held KJx Qxx Qxx QTxx and bid 2♠ over 2♦... Making 5. He blamed me for not bidding 3♦, and played me for a minimum hand...

1♠-2♠
3♦-4♠ (help suit try, accepted)

seems like a perfectly normal auction. If he's rather call it a limit raise,

1♠-1N(f)
2♦-3♠
4♠

should work just fine too.

[ArtK78]

whereagles, on Mar 30 2009, 07:21 AM, said:

Even with the latest high-tech gadgetry, the precision 2♣ opener beats any other precision opener for cumbersomeness.

That being said, I don't see why you call 1♣ the worst part of precision. If you enter asking bids/relays sequences, the bidding accuracy second to none.

On the given hand, holding spades makes you quite resistant to preemption and you wouldn't bother if pard doubles opps, given you have nice defense. If the majors were reversed, I might open 1♥. As it is, 1♣ is certainly fine.

The reason that I say that the 1♣ opening is the worst part of Precision is that it opens your side up for all sorts of conventional and preemptive obstruction.

In the original Goren Precision book, it was stated that one of the good things about Precision as compared to the well known strong club systems of the time (Blue Team, Schenken, etc.) was that the requirement for opening a strong 1♣ opening was lowered to 16 HCP. It is precisely this aspect of Precision that makes the 1♣ bid more susceptible to interference - the opponents tend to have more "stuff" so they can enter the auction more freely. Even the best strong club partnerships are less likely to land on their feet after the opponents enter their auction following a 1♣ opening bid.

I will say that the upside of having the requirements of the 1♣ opening lowered to 16 HCP is that the one of a suit opening bid is much more precisely defined. The best Precision auction is 1M-4M, where 4M can be weak or strong, but responder knows that with opener limited to 15 HCP there is no realistic play for slam.

By the way, there is another candidate for the worst opening bid in Precision - and that is 1♦ - especially when it shows 0+ diamonds.

[whereagles]

ArtK78, on Mar 30 2009, 01:48 PM, said:

By the way, there is another candidate for the worst opening bid in Precision - and that is 1♦ - especially when it shows 0+ diamonds.

Agree. Together with 2♣, that opening is so irritating I prefer to bundle 1♦ and 2♣ together into a 1♣ opener and play strong diamond

As for the best of precision, I would say it's the ability to sort out, from the very first bid, who's capitain. The difficulties in sorting out this issue in natural systems are the #1 source of disasters in adv+ level partnerships.

[Phil]

mtvesuvius, on Mar 29 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

OK, Sorry to post this. LOL. I posted this to settle an argument. Partner held KJx Qxx Qxx QTxx and bid 2♠ over 2♦... Making 5. He blamed me for not bidding 3♦, and played me for a minimum hand...

This was posted to print out and show partner. LOL. Thanks for your wtp responses

Delayed 2♠ ?!

This is an obvious 2♠, especially if you are playing constructive raises over Precision 1M openings.

[keylime]

2♦, since seven points are outside of the two suits.

I admit, I might open a slightly aggressive forcing club due to the high control count.

[mtvesuvius]

Oy, 2 pages to print now!

Thanks for your responses, and I also thought that partner had a 2♠ bid or a delayed 3♠ bid... But partner was in no mood to discuss. BTW, this partner is the same as the "ATB for not reaching 6♣" partner...