[andy_h]

Sitting south at All vul, 2nd seat.
RHO preempts with 3♠

Scoring: IMP

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[mikeh]

This is far from a wtp?

We want to bid... we REALLY want to bid, but can we afford to?

If we could play adjective bridge, we have a good 'preemptive 5♦', but they don't allow that in real life or online.

Bidding here is a distortion that may well induce partner to go wrong, and which may in any event merely make our next guess even more painful. Imagine bidding 4♦ and having partner double 4♠.

Accordingly, I opt for the pass, and hope (pray?) that the auction times out well for my next call.

I know that passing and then reopening 5♦ allows LHO two chances to do the right thing, and that is normally anathema, but I surely can't pass throughout and bidding now is too misleading.

I expect to be in a minority.

[movingon]

I like Mike's thinking.

[helene_t]

I have an easy pull of partner's double of 4♠ whether I start with 4♦ or pass, but I am less comfortable about partner doubling 5♠ or 6♠.

I will pass, there should be a fair chance of it going 4♠ and back to me, then I can bid 5♦ and partner will be well placed to make a decision, whether LHO bids 5♠ or not.

If partner bids 5♥ over LHO's 4♠ I think I will try 6♦.

[whereagles]

I'll pass wtp? If LHO bids, we get to bid 5♦ later. If pard bids, we have an easy 5 as well.

[hanp]

I don't dare to pass. I will bid 4D and hope that my 8-4 shape makes up for my lack in HCP.

[Hanoi5]

I'm very tempted to pass. If I bid 4♦ I'll have to continue bidding diamonds over everything partner bids. I doubt the auction will finish here so I pass.

[MarkDean]

Why do I never seem to hear anybody mention non-leaping michaels when a hand like this is posted? I think this is a hard problem. I would bid 4♦, definitely pulling partner's double of 4♠. I used to pass hands like this, but a partner I respect always bids, and it seemed to me his decisions worked out better than mine on average.

[Codo]

It is hard to pass, but I will do it and bid 5 ♦ next round.

When I missed a cold 7 Diamond and they just play 3 Spade- bad luck next board.

[hotShot]

The questions is what is the agreed meaning of 4♦ and 5♦.

If you play that jump overcalls (even over preempts) are weak and nonforcing, than it's a simple 5♦ bid. But I doubt that this is the standard treatment.

Usually 4♦ should show a stronger hand (=> more defensive values), so the standard bid has to be pass.

[Apollo81]

I would definitely bid 4♦ at the table, but I wonder if pass followed by 5♦ (if it doesn't passout, and assuming partner will be able to tell what we have) is the right action? Maybe this is a good hand for a simulation?

[andy_h]

mikeh, on Mar 19 2009, 04:48 AM, said:

This is far from a wtp?

We want to bid... we REALLY want to bid, but can we afford to?

If we could play adjective bridge, we have a good 'preemptive 5♦', but they don't allow that in real life or online.

Bidding here is a distortion that may well induce partner to go wrong, and which may in any event merely make our next guess even more painful. Imagine bidding 4♦ and having partner double 4♠.

Accordingly, I opt for the pass, and hope (pray?) that the auction times out well for my next call.

I know that passing and then reopening 5♦ allows LHO two chances to do the right thing, and that is normally anathema, but I surely can't pass throughout and bidding now is too misleading.

I expect to be in a minority.

This was exactly my thinking as well. In that I really really wanted to bid but partner will paint a totally different hand for us (for a typical 4♦ hand). It just felt a bit weird to me that's all, in that not bidding 4♦ now (but passing) and coming back in later with 5♦ later gives the opponents more chances to do the right thing. But I don't know how 'bad' (if at all) it is to bid 4♦ directly (and then remove a possible X by partner of 4♠) as we could still be the one doing a sac.

[jdonn]

I would pass because no bid is accurate, and I don't find it a very hard decision to make. In general I hate to depend on the other players to keep it alive for me, but the odds this gets passed our are so low. By passing then bidding 5♦ I create a fair picture of tons of shape and not much strength.

[Phil]

Its very difficult to quantify these types of hands. What is the cutoff for bidding and passing?

I think everyone would bid if the ♦J were the K.

I would also bid 4♦ with AQTxxxxx or if I had a little more in clubs.

I'll pass this.

[brianshark]

My main concern with passing hands like this is that the auction may be above the 5-level by the time it comes back to us. Eg. Partner may have a similar hand with hearts and waltz in on the 5-level over 4♠. If that happens, not only would I be scared to bid more in case it's void opposite void, I'm not even sure partner won't assume my new suit bids aren't fitted.

I think it might be better to get your suit off your chest as early as possible. Once I bid, I'll pull a penalty double to 5♦, but any doubling higher than that then I'm just going to pass and hope it's a misfit deal.

[keylime]

Part of me really wants to bid 4NT here, but I am going to resist the urge and bid a disciplined pass to await further developments. What I'm hoping for, is 4♠ from LHO, and pard finds a double.

[skjaeran]

5♦ would show a STRONG hand for me (never preempt vs a preempt), and even 4♦ shows a (far) better hand than what I've got.

So there's no bid available for this hand, and thus it's an easy pass.

[Hairy_Scot]

Can someone please tell me what WTP means?

[ArtK78]

What's The Problem?

[rogerclee]

On the actual hand I would pass and hope to bid later.

As a side question, if you pass, LHO bids 6♠ and partner passes, will you bid 7♦?