[Chamaco]

Hi all

I have a question about the following strong club sequence:

IMPS, all vuln
1♣- (pass) - 1♦- (1♠)
pass-pass- ?

If I am correct, opener's pass shows he is ready to make a penalty pass if pard reopens with a double.
If this is true, my questions then become:

1) How strong must opener be to make a trap pass ? What are the requirements in terms of HCP and length in the overcaller suit ?
e.g.♠AKxx♥Kxx♦QJxx♣Axx
Does this hand meet the requirements ? Or is bidding 1NT safer?


2) Assuming opener's pass is a trap pass, is pard obliged to reopen at any cost, either by double or bidding anything, even holding a yarborough ?

E.g., after the above sequence, what do you bid holding
Hand 1
♠xxxx♥x♦xxxx♣xxxx
Hand 2
♠x♥xxxx♦xxxx♣xxxx

[flytoox]

As far as I know, there is no trap pass after 1c-p-1d-1s; ? Pls refer to hamman and soloway's sys for over intervention.

[Flame]

Im not familier with this but I'm pretty sure a pass cant be only use for a trap pass, the all idea of a trap pass is the ability to show two type of hands with this pass, the trap which will pass partner next bid, and another one which will do something else.

[mikestar]

This is not a good position for a trap pass. Strengthen your example hand by an Ace and you still may have trouble setting 1S if partner is broke. A trap pass at the one level really must have five good trumps at least.

A better use is for pass to show weakness (relative to having opend a big club). Typically, this would be a balanced or semibalanced hand without a stopper, not shaped right for a takeout double. You can still trap with excellent spades--if partner reopens with a double (showing some values) you leave it in and bid spades otherwise. If partner leaves it in with a weak hand you may or may not set them with the strong spades, but defending 1S undoubled should be OK, as it is their hand and they have a better fit elsewhere most of the time.

All of the above presupposes that their 1S is natural here--many partnerships use variations of their defense directly over the big club in this position.

[tysen2k]

I agree with the above posts. This isn't an always trap pass situation. It's just too rare of a situation that you'd have the hand that wants to defend 1♠x for you to use your cheapest bid to show this. Plus you're going to have trouble defining acceptable ranges for your balanced hands if you can't pass without a trump stack. Pass should be a minimum NT (15-17 or 16-18), bid 1NT with more than a minimum (18-20 or 19-21).

[mishovnbg]

tysen2k, on May 11 2004, 06:21 PM, said:

I agree with the above posts.  This isn't an always trap pass situation.  It's just too rare of a situation that you'd have the hand that wants to defend 1♠x for you to use your cheapest bid to show this.  Plus you're going to have trouble defining acceptable ranges for your balanced hands if you can't pass without a trump stack.  Pass should be a minimum NT (15-17 or 16-18), bid 1NT with more than a minimum (18-20 or 19-21).

I agree too and want to add that best way to bid here is like your normal overcall structure include michaels for example, but with hcp ranges connected to 1♣ Precision opening. You can play trap pass rebid on opps overcall, only if opening is enough strong to promisse self rebid, like 1 NT ROMEX opening (any strong 2).
Misho