[twcho]

Scoring: IMP

W　N　E　　S
　　　　P　 　P
1♦　X　1♥*　P
2♣　P　3♣　AP

---

* 1♥=4+♠

Where did the bidding go wrong? As the cards lie, 6♣ is cold but 5♣ shd be reached.
Who is more to blame, East or West?

[FrancesHinden]

did East not notice he had 6-card trump support?

edit: sorry, I have not directly answered the question but instead made a flip comment.

East is more to blame.

[ArtK78]

Yes, East is more to blame. But I have a lot of sympathy for East.

What are his choices over 2♣? 4♣? 5♣? A splinter in partner's first bid suit, if that is possible? The partnership could easily be off three tricks, if not 4 tricks. And it is not like East has a powerhouse - just a lot of clubs.

[Apollo81]

East should be able to guess (or come close to) partner's distribution since the opponents aren't bidding hearts. That makes his hand huge. I would bid at least 4♣ with the East hand.

[Hanoi5]

East is more to blame but probably 65% East-35%West or 60-40.

[jdonn]

East gets 30% of the blame for responding in spades instead of clubs to begin with in competition when he could so easily transfer to clubs planning to bid spades. He gets 65% for the 3♣ bid. West gets 5% since an overbid over 3♣ is barely possible. So 95% east.

[mikeh]

jdonn, on Mar 11 2009, 12:56 PM, said:

East gets 30% of the blame for responding in spades instead of clubs to begin with in competition when he could so easily transfer to clubs planning to bid spades. He gets 65% for the 3♣ bid. West gets 5% since an overbid over 3♣ is barely possible. So 95% east.

I suspect that many would play that showing clubs then spades would show a stronger hand than this, even by a passed hand. The void in partner's suit, combined with a takeout double of that suit on his right, usually based on diamond shortness, suggests that this may be a misfit, and bidding clubs then spades will elevate the level too fast.

However, I agree with the main point about showing clubs.. I would simply ignore the spade suit with this hand and suit disparity...

Having said that, the auction actually timed out extremely well for East, since West volunteered clubs.

I would bid 5♣ as East, and I don't think I am being influenced by seeing the hands... a factor that often leads to me saying that I am not sure what I would do given that I now had knowledge that I would not have had at the table.

So the blame is, to me, very close to 100% on east.

[whereagles]

East could have bid 4♣ instead of 3... West could have bid 3NT instead of pass to 3♣.

Oh well.

[Apollo81]

BTW if the East player happens to be reading this thread -- don't feel too bad. I see decent players make this sort of error (underevaluation of support/shape when raising partner's secondary minor suit) all the time.

Heck, maybe even my 4♣ bid is an underbid.

[Free]

Imo East is not so clearly to blame as some of the other posters suggest. West can also have a 2-3-4-4 or a 2-2-5-4 distribution and pretty light, even with lost values in ♦. Still, the ♠ transfer doesn't make it easy and the 3♣ is pretty lame.

[FrancesHinden]

What would you expect West to rebid with a 2344 minimum? Surely 1NT.

You haven't told us what the 2C rebid actually shows - I've assumed that it denies three spades (or has substantial extra values) and that minimum hands with three spades simply complete to 1S, minimums without three spades make their 'natural' rebid.

So partner is either 2254 or has extra minor suit length somewhere.
Of course it's a guess on the East hand, and it's more of a guess when you know that partner will think Hx in spades is a good holding, not a poor one. It's not really a question of whether partner has extra values or not, it's just a matter of where those values are.

-
Kxx
KQxxx
Axxxx

is a 12-count opposite which 7C has play and 6C is virtually cold.

while
Kxx
x
KQxxx
Axxx

you don't really want to play in 5C - and partner may think this is a better hand when we bid spades and clubs, or at least as good a hand as the first.

[hanp]

Quote

What would you expect West to rebid with a 2344 minimum? Surely 1NT.

Cherdano and I rebid 1S. Not having this agreement I would surely rebid 1NT.

Quote

So partner is either 2254 or has extra minor suit length somewhere.

Or 1354 or 0454? Or, dare I say, 1444?

I agree with the rest of what you wrote. We have a huge fit and partner likely has shortness in the suit where we hold 10xxx (especially since the opponents failed to double 1H). As you point out an invite might be fairly useless and I think I would also bid 5C.

[MFA]

I can't find a good bid that describes the east hand well, so I'll settle for a slightly conservative 5♣ leap.

[twcho]

Most thought that East is more responsible for the missing game/slam.

Just wonder what is the normal hand for bidding 3♣ here. Is 9-10 HCP hand a typical hand? If so, why shouldn't west try for game or just bid 3nt as the combined hands are already in the game zone. Is west too chicken?

[the hog]

whereagles, on Mar 12 2009, 01:14 AM, said:

East could have bid 4♣ instead of 3... West could have bid 3NT instead of pass to 3♣.

Oh well.

Agree, except that I would replace Nuno's first "could" with "should".