[matmat]

jdonn, on Mar 3 2009, 07:13 PM, said:

Or maybe I should relate it better to you. You have played pro bridge before, right? Imagine you have a set client for local regionals. Then all of a sudden someone who has none of your playing credentials (but for all you know could be a fine player, though you can't prove it) tells your client he is just as good as you and he will play with them for free. Would you care that he is doing it for the love of the game?

I really don't see a problem here.

[jdonn]

Not that I mind being disagreed with here, but I'll say it again:

Look at the title of the thread.

I am not trying to argue that teaching bridge for free would not be economically efficient, or would be "wrong". The reason I pose the 'how would you feel' question is because that is what's being asked, or at least so I think.

"Would teaching bridge free rub people the wrong way?"
"Yes, local bridge teachers."
"But I think there is nothing wrong with that."
Ok. So what?

Tim is the only one who has made an on-topic argument in favor of doing this. Maybe Phil is stating it better than I am, the point being that if you care what the bridge teachers in the area think, then you are (arguably?) making a big mistake.

[matmat]

jdonn, on Mar 4 2009, 01:46 AM, said:

Look at the title of the thread.

yeah. point taken.

otoh, if it rubs them the wrong way, it's their problem, as it shouldn't. it is a business in a free market and all that.

[Trinidad]

Do I understand that your goal is to get more bridge players in the area?

Then why don't you start free introduction lessons at the library in cooperation with the existing bridge teachers? It could go like this: You give lessons one evening a week. You will teach lesson 1 and 2. In lesson 3, you will introduce bridge teachers X, Y and Z, they will help out with the lesson. They will applaud your initiative, but they will also get the chance to express why they are better teachers in the long run. (After all, this accreditation must be good for something and these teachers should know what it is good for.)

Then, you take care of lesson 4 through N. The week before teacher X starts a new class, you invite him over again. You encourage your students to take X's course. Some of your students will go on with X. And you will be closer to reaching your goal of having new bridge players in the area. With the other students you go on, until Y starts his course, etc.

In return for your cooperation (the free advertising), the existing bridge teachers might encourage some of their students to visit your bridge club.

With a little communication, coordination and cooperation this has the potential for an "everybody wins" scenario. And winners are never rubbed the wrong way.

Rik

[P_Marlowe]

TimG, on Mar 3 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

I'm really surprised.  The people who take free bridge lessons at he local library are not the same people who will pay for bridge lessons.  But, they might turn into people who will pay for bridge lessons (or people who will eventually find their way into a bridge club).  If I was making some money from teaching bridge lessons, I would welcome the guy doing the free job at the library.  I'd expect those that stuck with the lesson series and took some interest in the game to find their way to my lessons (or into my club) before long.

I agree.

And there is a different between someone, who gives
free lessons and someone, who gets paid:

If someone provides free lessons, the participants
need to be willing to come to predefined times, at
a predefied location.
The guy, who provides the lessons may be willing
to discuss different times, but it is restricted to his
spare time.

Add. the materials will be less professional / less shiny,
because the guy does it for free.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[CSGibson]

jdonn, on Mar 3 2009, 10:17 AM, said:

I think you are picking a needless battle. I mean if done on a large scale under different settings (such as setting myself up outside Walmart and giving everyone all the free groceries they want) I don't even think it would be legal. If the goal is for as many people as possible to learn bridge then why start a contentious situation with the existing teachers? As for your credentials, they may well be true and I certainly don't have an opinion to whether or not they are, but it's exactly the kind of things a terrible teacher could claim to be true whether they are or not. I don't question the nature of your motivation, but I think you would be making a mistake.

Btw do you realize this post started another thread at almost the same time you started this one? Karma perhaps?

Caitlin, on Mar 2 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

A group of highly acclaimed bridge teachers and I are increasingly concerned that everyone and his/her grandmother can now present themselves as bridge teachers. Let me first say that I do NOT claim to be an expert but after 11 years of teaching online, with accreditation by the ACBL (if that matters or not), I am confident about teaching novices/low intermediates with whom I love to work with. I am also proud that teachers with Bridge Forum (www.bridge-forum.com) are picked not only by me, but by my colleagues. Each has his/her own area of expertise, whether it be Larry Mori (larrymori) John Gowdy (Gowdy) or George Mittelman (mittmouse), all truly World Class players who can teach any level of bridge. But what about those who claim to be what they are not and lead students astray? How does the student know this? And does being a World Class player automatically make you a good teacher? Should there be some accreditation process?  I raise these questions, hoping for a fruitful discussion.
Caitlin

Actually, I saw that post and wanted to get feedback as a result of that post.

As for my credentials, I appreciate that it is easy to say what I am saying, but that's not the part I wanted feedback on; I would rather you assume it to be true for the moment and register your opinion from there.

[CSGibson]

I want to thank all responders to this post who have given their honest opinions. If I go forward with this, it sounds like it would be a very good idea to talk to the existing bridge teachers in the area and get their thoughts, and possibly collaborate with them in an attempt to funnel students into their classes or local clubs when they graduate from my own.

[neilkaz]

CSGibson, on Mar 4 2009, 09:52 AM, said:

I want to thank all responders to this post who have given their honest opinions. If I go forward with this, it sounds like it would be a very good idea to talk to the existing bridge teachers in the area and get their thoughts, and possibly collaborate with them in an attempt to funnel students into their classes or local clubs when they graduate from my own.

I agree with you completely here and hope that you are able to start classes.

[blackshoe]

Locally, there are several "accredited" bridge teachers (including me). Some of them are actually teaching courses, for pay. Some of those who are doing that don't have a clue about their subject matter. So accreditation, which is easy to come by, isn't really worth much.

That said, I think Chris has come to the right conclusion.

[helene_t]

sireenb, on Mar 4 2009, 03:36 AM, said:

A big problem with free bridge lessons for beginners is that many people tend to join them for the simple reason that they are free, rather than from any serious interest to learn the game.

A few lessons later, and as they realize that there is quite a lot of work involved learning even elementary bridge, people start dropping out and you will be lucky to end up with 10% attendance at the end. I have seen this at every single free beginners' course given here even by excellent teachers. When people do not pay, there is no commitment!

I second that.

Also I think most of those who are now paying for a tuition would not join a free class because they suspect there is a reason why it's free. Maybe this could change temporarily because of the economic climate, though.

[Phil]

CSGibson, on Mar 4 2009, 10:52 AM, said:

I want to thank all responders to this post who have given their honest opinions. If I go forward with this, it sounds like it would be a very good idea to talk to the existing bridge teachers in the area and get their thoughts, and possibly collaborate with them in an attempt to funnel students into their classes or local clubs when they graduate from my own.

Yes, this is the right idea.

If your classes serve as feeders for other classes or games, they will fully support you.

Anytime someone endeavors to make the 'pie' bigger, its great for everyone.

[jdonn]

Agree with the last 6 posts or so. Which means I agree with myself since I suggested it in my second post.

[mycroft]

When I read the OP, it didn't seem like the other teachers' classes were in the library, just in the local area. At that point, while it is probably best to discuss with the established order (at least in my area, people offering basic courses aren't living off the proceeds; anyone offering pro dates have individual clients or are offering the equivalent of single/partnership tutoring. In other areas of the country, things are different I would guess), I don't think it's a problem, especially if you attempt to funnel the players that stay the course to a local duplicate. More players = more people taking level II classes (and I'm sure you can recommend teachers for that, now that you've discussed the issue with the other teachers in the area), bigger I/N games (so more people to talk about how much fun they're having at this game, and maybe converting one of the "You know, I looked at it, but..." community into taking lessons), and so on.

The Hog is going a bit far, given that reading. If Vientiane was Fairview Alberta, and there was only room for one teacher within an hour's commute, then a second one at a different location would certainly be an issue. But it isn't, and I don't think the OP is in that rural an areaa. We aren't talking about undercutting him at his school - just another teacher in the 3/4million metro area.