[flytoox]

vul vs not, you hold:
S: --
H: XX
D: AKJT987
C: AJXX

RHO OPENED 3H, What do you bid?

[mr1303]

If you double, I GUARANTEE that partner will bid spades.

Hence don't. I think there are two many losers for 5D, so I'll content myself with 4D

[Flame]

I would bid 4D.
If west continue with 4h i will bid 4nt to show my 6-4.

[Fluffy]

4♦ looks like the only bid to me, 4.5 losers is the strenght expected, would understand 5♦ if my partner picked it, but not my style. Can´t see any other choice.

I don´t intend at all to shwo ♣, ,not even if the suit was better, with a 7-4 is better to play in the 7th except rare cases.

[the hog]

You know what is going to happen here, don't you? If you bid 4D I guarantee that partner will bid 4S. Now what? His S may actually be good enough to play 4 eg KQJTxx, but we will never know.

Much as this goes against the grain and is unpalatable, I pass this hand. If pd finds a double, (please). I bid 5D. If pd bids 3S, I bid 4D and then 5D over 4S, as his S are not likely to be that good if he can't bid 4 immediately. Ugly stuff!

[inquiry]

i am surprised misho hasn't answered this one. This is a GREAT one for his meta overcall structure, which I think is works BEST at the three level. Here a double ask your parnter to bid 3NT with a heart stopper. Will you stick in 3NT with a spade void if he bids it? I think maybe it might be worth it. But in meta, dbls, esepciallyh at the three level, ask for 3NT with a stopper.

Now, I am the very first to admit this is no where near standard. I think playing standard, the best bid is the simple pass for the reasons expressed by The_hog.

Ben

[mishovnbg]

Yes Ben, meta dbl show bal hand or minor overcall at 4 level without a stopper and hand in example is one more prove about advantages of meta overcalls.
Misho

[luis]

Pass the doubleton in hearts is really discouraging.
Yeah I have a 7-4 hand so what?

[Free]

4♦ seems the normal bid to me, unless you play some fancy stuff In a normal system Dbl is the worst bid ever, even worse than pass...

[Flame]

What i like about this forum is i get to learn new stuff even after many years of bridge . I would never think of passing this before.

[flytoox]

Flame, on May 4 2004, 06:12 PM, said:

What i like about this forum is i get to learn new stuff even after many years of bridge . I would never think of passing this before.

hehe, neither me, never.

[mikestar]

I bid 5D--partner won't bid spades over this and he may have the right cards to make it. If he has the wrong cards they may not know it and take a phantom save in 5H.

[easy]

luis, on May 4 2004, 04:03 PM, said:

Pass the doubleton in hearts is really discouraging.
Yeah I have a 7-4 hand so what?

Yes the doubleton heart is a discouraging holding and yes pard probably does have spades but.............. to pass seems awfully negative with this hand. 7-4 with all your points in your suits is just too good to go quietly.

I choose 4D

[the hog]

So what do you now bid if partner bids 4S? 5D? Then you find partner with xx of H and KQJTxx of S. Pass? You may now find that partner has bid this on a partial D fit with a 5 card S suit. 4S is many off.

No answer is perfect, but partner will strive to protect in the pass out seat. I am happy that pass is better than the alternatives. Initially I thought I'd be totally the odd one out by passing. Interesting that Ben and Luis also think its correct.

[Antoine Fourrière]

I bid 5♦ immediately. Hope they'll lead spades.
(I would also open 5♦, by the way.)

[Flame]

The_Hog, on May 4 2004, 07:20 PM, said:

So what do you now bid if partner bids 4S? 5D? Then you find partner with xx of H and KQJTxx of S. Pass? You may now find that partner has bid this on a partial D fit with a 5 card S suit. 4S is many off.

No answer is perfect, but partner will strive to protect in the pass out seat. I am happy that pass is better than the alternatives. Initially I thought I'd be totally the odd one out by passing. Interesting that Ben and Luis also think its correct.

Not saying that pass isnt right, but hear this, if east has 2 or less spades, then his partner has atleast Axxxx and if he also has 2 heart then 4sp has a good chance to go down.
so lets hope east has 3 spades now , west and partner have 10 spades together, i think KQJ10xx is too much to expect from partner, remember any less like KQJXXX doesnt make it. my point is 4sp will seldom be the right contract. so we know what to do over 4d-4sp we dont want to pass, and the way i play it 4nt will show exactly what i have 6-4 because with 5-5 or 6-5 or even bad 6 and good 4 i would bid 5c, partner will know what to do now.
If i pass and partner bid 3sp you said to bid 4d and then 5d over 4sp, im not that sure that this bet is much better. if partner bid his suit twice doesnt it give him a better suit then if he only bid 4sp once over our 4d ?

[easy]

The_Hog, on May 5 2004, 03:20 AM, said:

So what do you now bid if partner bids 4S? 5D? Then you find partner with xx of H and KQJTxx of S. Pass? You may now find that partner has bid this on a partial D fit with a 5 card S suit. 4S is many off.

No answer is perfect, but partner will strive to protect in the pass out seat. I am happy that pass is better than the alternatives. Initially I thought I'd be totally the odd one out by passing. Interesting that Ben and Luis also think its correct.

Yes over 4s i would rebid 5d.

In your example pard would not reopen with a double they would bid 3s. Are you now going to bid 4d which doesnt show the value of your hand or are you going to bid 4h which may be a probe for nt or a good spade raise. At least when having bid 4d immediately pard is aware that you have a very good hand and will know what to do with a stiff heart and a couple good cards.

This hand has a tremendous slam potential and pass does not get that message across to pard. what is pard to do with

xxxxx axx qxx kxx after our pass of 3h. (hand contrived to make my point i am willing to bet the auction would go 3h p p p.

but over 4d pard will surely bid 4nt. (and after a heart lead, if the club finesse works wonder out loud how to get to 6d)Ah yes that begs the question is 4nt to play in this auction? I think so.

as everyone here has said nothing is perfect but it has been my experience that when one passes with a good hand it's often impossible to convey to pard the value of your hand in the subsequent rounds of bidding

[flytoox]

For those who are curious. Pd's hand is
S: AJTX
H: KX
D: XX
C: KQTXX

I BID 5D AFTER RHO'S 3H, THEN PD BID 6N, LHO HAS DIAMOND QXXX BEHIND, AND WE HAVE TO COLLECT 8 TRICKS AND CONCEDE THE REST.

4D seems the best bid. Pd will bid 4N or 5C. Pass may work out this time but not the other time.

[Trpltrbl]

Pass is my favorite, 4♦ second choice.

Mike