[deep]

Natural Sistem 4° Major

1♠ (2♦ ) double (pass)
2♥ (pass) ? what bid South with this hand?

Scoring: MP

---

[hrothgar]

deep, on Jan 26 2009, 03:35 PM, said:

Natural Sistem 4° Major

1♠ (2♦ ) ! (pass)
2♥ (pass) ? what bid South with this hand?

Scoring: MP

---

Hi there

I'm assuming that there are actually two different questions:

The first is whats the right bid after

1♠ - (2♦) - ???

The second assumes that you passed over 2♦ and you now need to decide how to advance after partner reopens with 2♥.

Let's take these in order:

First: What's reasonable after 1♠ - (2♦) - ???

This is a rough hand if you're playing 4 card majors. Many people solve this problem by using a scheme like the following

2N = a limit raise in Spades with 4 card support
A cue bid = a limit raise in Spades with 3 card support

(This creates other problems, most noteably how to show a natural 2NT bid, but nothing in life is perfect)

Alternatively, I think that 3♣ is perfectly reasonable.
I think that pass is dreadful.

Second: Let's assume that you passed originally.

Anything you do right now is going to dreadfully misrepresent your hand.
I'd probably bid 4♠ and hope that partner doesn't make 6

[deep]

hrothgar, on Jan 26 2009, 07:51 AM, said:

deep, on Jan 26 2009, 03:35 PM, said:

Natural Sistem 4° Major

1♠ (2♦ ) Contro (pass)
2♥ (pass) ? what bid South with this hand?

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> North </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> Both </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> MP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> AJ10 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> A6 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> 10 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> J1097632 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

Hi there

I'm assuming that there are actually two different questions:

The first is whats the right bid after

1♠ - (2♦) - ???

The second assumes that you passed over 2♦ and you now need to decide how to advance after partner reopens with 2♥.

Let's take these in order:

First: What's reasonable after 1♠ - (2♦) - ???

This is a rough hand if you're playing 4 card majors. Many people solve this problem by using a scheme like the following

2N = a limit raise in Spades with 4 card support
A cue bid = a limit raise in Spades with 3 card support

(This creates other problems, most noteably how to show a natural 2NT bid, but nothing in life is perfect)

Alternatively, I think that 3♣ is perfectly reasonable.
I think that pass is dreadful.

Second: Let's assume that you passed originally.

Anything you do right now is going to dreadfully misrepresent your hand.
I'd probably bid 4♠ and hope that partner doesn't make 6

No after 2♦ i bid contro no pass

[OleBerg]

Contro means double.
Surcontro is redouble.

[deep]

deep, on Jan 26 2009, 08:45 AM, said:

hrothgar, on Jan 26 2009, 07:51 AM, said:

deep, on Jan 26 2009, 03:35 PM, said:

Natural Sistem 4° Major

1♠ (2♦ ) Contro (pass)
2♥ (pass) ? what bid South with this hand?

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> North </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> Both </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> MP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> AJ10 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> A6 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> 10 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> J1097632 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

Hi there

I'm assuming that there are actually two different questions:

The first is whats the right bid after

1♠ - (2♦) - ???

The second assumes that you passed over 2♦ and you now need to decide how to advance after partner reopens with 2♥.

Let's take these in order:

First: What's reasonable after 1♠ - (2♦) - ???

This is a rough hand if you're playing 4 card majors. Many people solve this problem by using a scheme like the following

2N = a limit raise in Spades with 4 card support
A cue bid = a limit raise in Spades with 3 card support

(This creates other problems, most noteably how to show a natural 2NT bid, but nothing in life is perfect)

Alternatively, I think that 3♣ is perfectly reasonable.
I think that pass is dreadful.

Second: Let's assume that you passed originally.

Anything you do right now is going to dreadfully misrepresent your hand.
I'd probably bid 4♠ and hope that partner doesn't make 6

No after 2♦ i bid contro no pass

double sorry no contro

[hrothgar]

deep, on Jan 26 2009, 04:45 PM, said:

No after 2♦ i bid contro no pass

Sorry about that...

Didn't understand the initial auction.

For what its worth, I don't like starting with a double. I'm torn whether its better to introduce clubs or show support with some kind of Spade raise. Suggesting that I have hearts seems like an ugly distortion.

[deep]

hrothgar, on Jan 26 2009, 09:14 AM, said:

deep, on Jan 26 2009, 04:45 PM, said:

No after 2♦ i bid contro no pass

Sorry about that...

Didn't understand the initial auction.

For what its worth, I don't like starting with a double. I'm torn whether its better to introduce clubs or show support with some kind of Spade raise. Suggesting that I have hearts seems like an ugly distortion.

At first open 1♠ no 5 cards, after with 2♥ patner give me 5♠, then not possible give a support ♠ in first answer

[P_Marlowe]

3S.

You have discovered a fit, and you have inv. values,
show both.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hrothgar]

deep, on Jan 26 2009, 05:19 PM, said:

hrothgar, on Jan 26 2009, 09:14 AM, said:

deep, on Jan 26 2009, 04:45 PM, said:

No after 2♦ i bid contro no pass

Sorry about that...

Didn't understand the initial auction.

For what its worth, I don't like starting with a double. I'm torn whether its better to introduce clubs or show support with some kind of Spade raise. Suggesting that I have hearts seems like an ugly distortion.

At first open 1♠ no 5 cards, after with 2♥ patner give me 5♠, then not possible give a support ♠ in first answer

Hi Deep:

You seem to assume that you need 4+ card spade support to show support for partner's 1♠ opening. I'm not sure if this is true...

I play LOTS of 4 card majors. If you require 4+ card to raise partner you're going to run into lots of problems on relatively simple/common hand types.

As I noted before, lots of people who play 4 card majors have two ways to show a limit raise in this type of sequence. One raise shows 4+ card support. The other shows three card support.

Last, but not least: If you refuse to show support for partner's spades, I have to believe that 3♣ will work better than double. You have a seven card suit with a stiff diamond. This has to be better than making a bid that is designed to show heart length.

Please note: I'm not claiming that I'd make a three card spade raise even if I had one available. 3♣ might very well be the best bid even if I could raise spades. I'm just saying that the one bid that I would not chose is double.

BTW, if I do double, then I'm going to game force over 2♠. You claim that 2♥ promises 5+ spades so we're assured an eight card fit. My Ax in Hearts is presumably sitting across some heart length. I have a stiff diamond and ruffing values in the short hand. GF seems pretty clear.

[Hanoi5]

3♠ seems normal, 4♠ is not wrong either.

[helene_t]

3♠.

I would have bid 2♠ at my first turn.

[dicklont]

3♠

But I would have bid 3♦ in the previous round.
No double without hearts.
The cuebid shows fit and limit or better values.
I owe partner a spade, but it's a better call than 3♣ (yuk).

With 4 spades, by the way, i think 4♦ is the best call in the first round, showing splinter and fit.

[peachy]

1S (2D) Dbl, I assume in a natural system the Double is negative double and shows hearts. If you did Dbl and partner bid hearts, he did not "bid" them, he "supported" your hearts - which you do not have. Instead of Dbl, you should have either shown clubs or supported spades.

[InTime]

deep, on Jan 26 2009, 07:35 AM, said:

Natural Sistem 4° Major

1♠ (2♦ ) double (pass)
2♥ (pass) ? what bid South with this hand?

Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠ AJ10 ♥ A6 ♦ 10 ♣ J1097632

Playing 4-card majors partner bids 2♥ after your negative double. So, partner must have 5-spades. Having 4-4 in the majors, partner would have opened with 1♥ not 1♠. So, I will bid 4♠ without even thinking about it. With my singleton diamond and distribution and first round controls, I am even better than a negative double.
Regards

[Old York]

Hi

Even when playing a 4 card major system, over 90% of 1 spade opening bids show 5+ card suit. With hearts the figure is near 80%

This freak hand could take a lot of tricks with spades as trumps, do not worry that partner may have only 4 card spades, if he does have 4 spades then he must have a good hand (probably balanced)

After the diamond overcall, I would support spades (never double)

Game in Spades seems reasonable

Tony

[helene_t]

Old York, on Feb 2 2009, 07:49 PM, said:

Hi

Even when playing a 4 card major system, over 90% of 1 spade opening bids show 5+ card suit.

They play strong notrump so this may not be true (depending of whether they play up the line or not). Anyway I agree the first bid is 2♠