Forcing Pass on BBO VuGraph
#1
Posted 2009-January-24, 19:29
Look for Ware-McManus in the Milne team - they may not play all sets as they're a team of 6.
Refer your BBO VuGraph Schedule for local times.
nickf
sydney
#2
Posted 2009-January-24, 19:31
#3
Posted 2009-January-24, 22:27
We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
#4
Posted 2009-January-24, 23:48
#5
Posted 2009-January-25, 06:41
JanM, on Jan 25 2009, 06:48 PM, said:
You are correct they describe their pass as semi-forcing.
I think this sort of pass is general convention chart legal as only strong pass systems are banned.
Of course there is a GCC problem with their 1♥ FERT.
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#6
Posted 2009-January-25, 11:34
♠ 98x
♥ ---
♦ Qxxx
♣ KQTxxx
♠ Txx ♠ Kx
♥ Q98xx ♥ Jxx
♦ --- ♦ AKJxxxx
♣ AJxxx ♣ x
♠ AQJxx
♥ AKxxx
♦ xx
♣ x
Auction was 3[C] - 3♦ - 3♠ - P - 4♥ - P - 4♠ -PPP
West led the heart 9, making it obvious to everyone within miles that he didn't have any diamonds.
Declarer ruffed the heart, led the K of clubs to the A. West shifted (wisely) to a trump, which went to the K and A. Declarer ruffed another heart and led the Q of clubs, which East ruffed. Overruff, pull trumps, cash heart AK leaving:
♠ ---
♥ ---
♦ Qx
♣ Txx
♠ --- ♠ ---
♥ Q ♥ ---
♦ --- ♦ AKJxx
♣ Jxxx ♣ ---
♠ x
♥ x
♦ xx
♣ ---
Now declarer claimed (correctly in my opinion) but he claimed -1, conceding the 3 red tricks. Surely if he'd been alert he would have known he could play a heart to West and pitch his diamonds on the J and ten of clubs? Maybe this was just "last boarditis," a disease from which lots of us suffer, but maybe it was aided by the drain of all the artificial bids.
#7
Posted 2009-January-25, 12:03
JanM said:
When you make a post, there are a bunch of buttons above the window that you type in. these buttons include "Fullhand", "Onehand", "Onesuit" and so forth. Clicking on these brings up a form you can fill out to get a nice hand diagram.
Formatting a bidding sequence is unfortunately a bit more annoying.
As to Ware and McManus, I see a lot of play mistakes in these long grueling top-flight matches. There are plenty of plays made late in the late rounds of the Spingold and Wager (even by pairs playing "standard" methods) that seem pretty poor. This is just the natural effect of fatigue. While it's possible that playing unusual methods somehow contributes, it sounds like these guys play their stuff a lot. And personally I've found that methods like theirs are often structured heavily around relays, and that this is actually easier on the memory than remembering the very hefty bag of special cases/conventions that most serious expert partnership "two-over-one" methods seem to resemble.
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#8
Posted 2009-January-25, 13:38
#9
Posted 2009-January-26, 12:13
awm, on Jan 25 2009, 01:03 PM, said:
I agree about late rounds of long matches, but this was the 2nd or 3rd quarter and they were playing on a 6 person team. Maybe it was just normal tiredness, but I'm not convinced.
#10
Posted 2009-January-26, 18:53
JanM, on Jan 27 2009, 07:13 AM, said:
awm, on Jan 25 2009, 01:03 PM, said:
I agree about late rounds of long matches, but this was the 2nd or 3rd quarter and they were playing on a 6 person team. Maybe it was just normal tiredness, but I'm not convinced.
After 5-days of qualifying - 4 day 3x20; 1 day 2x20.
At the end of the 5th day was the first knockout round in which they play 2x16 - making 72 boards for that day.
The sixth day had two lots of 2x16 in the knockouts.
This occurred on the seventh day in which there were 4x16 boards.
Most if not all of the players had played 64 boards of Swiss pairs the day before this even started and a similar number of boards in a Matchpoint event the day before that. Some also played various events finishing immediately before those events.
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#11
Posted 2009-February-02, 21:39
JanM, on Jan 26 2009, 01:13 PM, said:
Maybe its a function of "system complexity" that i was at the table (holding the long diamonds) and missed that declarer had stuffed up as well, until i read this post !
Btw, the only thing i found a bit annoying playing against this version of FP was that 1H = 7-10 any seemed to come up all the time and make things a bit awkward. We had no bad results from it. But we hardly ever seemed to be able to make an "opening bid"
#12
Posted 2009-February-03, 00:13
but he was dummy.
This board was in the 3rd 16-board set, after McManus - Ware had sat out the
2nd set. Perhaps they had just found out that I would be sitting out all the second half of the match, and that had eroded their confidence and concentration?
McManus - Ware are not a regular partnership. They play one event together
each year - the National Open Teams - playing either Crunch or modified T-Rex
or some such unusual system. They were the only pair (of 192 teams) playing a HUM. Mike Ware plays fast, with lots of claims, and appears to have no problem whatsoever remembering the 60-odd page Crunch system. After the match one
of their teammates told me that McManus - Ware played a terrific week's bridge until the semi-final.
Perhaps the standard of the opposition contributed to their sub-par semi-final?
Peter Gill
#13
Posted 2009-February-03, 00:54
sartaj1, on Feb 2 2009, 10:39 PM, said:
I bet your partner noticed!
Quote
It didn't look as if this particular system would be difficult, except perhaps for those who can't deal with anything unfamiliar.
#14
Posted 2009-February-03, 13:15
awm, on Jan 25 2009, 01:03 PM, said:
Agree -- methods based on (symmetric) relays are easier to remember because they follow a template...
#15
Posted 2009-February-03, 23:58
#16
Posted 2009-February-04, 01:03
The_Hog, on Feb 4 2009, 06:58 PM, said:
Provided that your system makes some effort to maximize the chance that the relayer is the declarer. The other hand knows nothing until the dummy appears.
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#17
Posted 2009-February-04, 02:08
Cascade, on Feb 4 2009, 02:03 PM, said:
The_Hog, on Feb 4 2009, 06:58 PM, said:
Provided that your system makes some effort to maximize the chance that the relayer is the declarer. The other hand knows nothing until the dummy appears.
Yeah Wayne, that goes without saying.
#18
Posted 2009-February-04, 23:09
JanM, on Feb 3 2009, 01:54 AM, said:
sartaj1, on Feb 2 2009, 10:39 PM, said:
I bet your partner noticed!
I remember Tony mumbling something about leading a trump while we were waiting for score-up. He also said something about "surviving" which i didnt realize until i read this little writeup !
#19
Posted 2009-February-05, 06:11
I kept the cutting to give to Tony Nunn tomorrow to check what Tony says about the hand. Tony does not miss much.
Peter
#20
Posted 2009-February-08, 07:46
Declarer actually exited a heart to Tony Nunn, who played CJ
which was ruffed. Now declarer played a diamond and conceded.
Sometimes the play on BBO goes so fast that BBO operators cannot
keep up and are virtually forced to explain the play as a claim.
Peter Gill