[geofspa]

Scoring: MP

At the table the bidding as follows:-

1N p 2♥ p
2♠ p 4♠ p
5♦ p 6♠ p
all pass

Opening Lead ♥A

---

So the story is as follows:-

I, sitting south, love to open all balanced hands within the point range 1NT. Partner makes a jacoby transfer bid and follows up with 4♠. In our agreements this is a mild slam try holding 6 spades. At the table I bid 5♦ (1st round control, and holding prime cards in all suits) and my partner bid 6♠.

So later in the evening we were going through the boards at the bar - and after a couple of beers a good idea? My partner of the night was a little miffed that I had opened this board 1NT (we had agreed earlier that it might have a 5 card major but I think he had forgotten) and he stated we were lucky to make the slam. He also said that if I had opened 1♥ that there would be no way we would be there.

Later I got to wondering if he was correct.

Now over to you the experts at pulling hands to pieces - open discussion please!

[Echognome]

Sure. You may have opened 1♥ and bid 2NT over partner's 1♠ call. Then I have no doubt you would get there. However, I don't think the South hand is worth that sequence, although I don't think it's far off from it.

I personally like opening 1NT on these hands, so you do not face impossible rebid problems.

[kenrexford]

1NT is a gross underbid, IMO. If you ever upgrade 5332 14-counts, then you have to upgrade 5332 17-counts to have a consistent range.

Starting with 1♥ should not avert 6♠.

1♥-1♠
2NT-3♥(transfer)
3N-4♣

This is a good start. Responder's 4♣ sets spades as trumps and is a cue. Opener reciprocates with a diamond cue, obviously the Ace. Responder bids 4♥ as Last Train because he needs the heart control. Opener has it, plus the obviously good spade Ace, so he bids past 4♠.

How Opener does this is a matter of style. In this type of sequence, I like an ask-or-answer approach (4NT asks, 5♣+ instead answers RKCB). Using that approach, I'd ask with Opener's hand (Opener cannot tell that the non-diamond key card is the spade Ace or King and not the heart Ace).

Using an ask-or-cue approach, Opener might opt to cue instead of asking, cuebidding 5♣ to show the heart control (bypass of game) plus the club King (Responder will know). In that sequence, Responder could then cue his diamond, or just bid the slam.

[BillHiggin]

It is certainly difficult to get to 6♠ by South after a 1♥ opening. Ken's auction virtually guides the defence to the killing heart lead.

[jdonn]

Why wouldn't you want to be there? It's way above 50%. You can test for a doubleton club queen, and if it's not there take a heart finesse, OR they might lead the ace of hearts anyway like they did.

[skjaeran]

Played by south, 6♠ is a great contract, by north it's just good.

I disagree with the 1NT opening, to me the hand is too strong to be evaluated as 15-17, with a decent 5-card suit and lots of controls. So I'd open 1♥, rebidding 2NT over 1♠. Wrongsiding the contract in the process.

[Phil]

The South hand has no spot higher than the 8, and a so-so five card suit in KJ6xx. This is still a 17 for me and I open it 1N.

Completely agree with a mild slam try as North bid it. Hopefully this implies a 6322. Obviously South cooperates; I'd just RKC I think.

[Wackojack]

Phil, on Jan 22 2009, 01:38 AM, said:

The South hand has no spot higher than the 8, and a so-so five card suit in KJ6xx. This is still a 17 for me and I open it 1N.

Completely agree with a mild slam try as North bid it.  Hopefully this implies a 6322. Obviously South cooperates; I'd just RKC I think.

Took the words out of my mouth

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Jan 21 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

Why wouldn't you want to be there? It's way above 50%. You can test for a doubleton club queen, and if it's not there take a heart finesse, OR they might lead the ace of hearts anyway like they did.

Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly do you intend to do this? You seem to need to take two rounds of clubs and three rounds of diamonds before drawing trumps, which pushes the odds down.

I might prefer the slightly different line (which also needs three rounds of diamonds to stand up) of win the opening e.g. diamond lead, cash three diamonds discarding a heart, trump to dummy, heart towards hand.

This would be a truly sterling line if we had the jack of clubs in hand instead of in dummy.

[kenrexford]

The fact that a 6♠ contract is wrong-sided is really bad.

However, I'm not sure that the existence of a spade fit means that you must declare 6♠ from the wrong side.

Consider the rest of the auction:

1♥-1♠
2NT-3♥
3NT-4♣
4♦-4♥
4NT-5♠
?

Can't Opener bid 6NT?

Sure, 6NT could fail, as could 6♠, if Declarer does not guess to drop the club Queen.

[JLOL]

That's great Ken except that 6N from south is a much worse contract than 6S from south and is also a worse contract than 6S from north.

[kenrexford]

JLOL, on Jan 22 2009, 08:24 AM, said:

That's great Ken except that 6N from south is a much worse contract than 6S from south and is also a worse contract than 6S from north.

The fact that a specific contract ends up being better from a specific side does not mean that a specific opening that caters to that ending is necessarily the right call. One could easily argue that a 1♠ opening by south is ideal, using that logic.

My point is that, after opening 1♥, 6NT by South is better than 6♠ played by South, slightly. As I cannot get to either contract played by North, it really does not mater what contract played by North might be superior.

If the general point is that opening 1NT makes sense because South has protected positions in all four suits, I agree. However, I would not open 1NT for that reason simply because I held the additional card of the spade Jack. 18 is clearly 18, although that 18 would actually be 19, but that's another matter.

[JLOL]

kenrexford, on Jan 22 2009, 08:53 AM, said:

My point is that, after opening 1♥, 6NT by South is better than 6♠ played by South, slightly.

LOL

[kenrexford]

JLOL, on Jan 22 2009, 09:17 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Jan 22 2009, 08:53 AM, said:

My point is that, after opening 1♥, 6NT by South is better than 6♠ played by South, slightly.

LOL

OK, here's how it is better.

1. I could get the silly heart Ace lead. VERY unlikely.

2. I could get a club lead, which gives me options. A lead of the 10 or 9 may mark a finesse with the 8-7 combo. Or, a small lead forces the Queen when I play small. So, a fairly reasonable club lead probably gives me the contract.

3. Suppose I get a spade or diamond lead. After playing two diamonds just in case, I find out that LHO has a stiff there. When I run down spades, I'll end up with a high diamond, two clubs, and KJ of hearts in hand. I'll end up with two hearts and KJx of clubs on dummy. LHO will probably reduce to A-Q in hearts and three clubs. RHO will probably reduce down to two clubs, two hearts, and a diamond. Something like that. This is bad. So, I mentally back up and play the spades first to end up with this position, but playing the two diamonds at that point to end up in this position in my hand. I can now cash the diamond to exert pressure on LHO, who MUST ditch a club. If this works out as this seems to have worked out, I will see some sweating and may get this right.

Granted, I just ruff a club out at 6♠ for trick #12, even if I do not get the heart Ace lead. But, 6NT by South is not exactly the worst contract I've played.

Besides, 6♠ can go down as well, such as all but one situation where hearts are 5-1, or when LHO has the doubleton club instead with the spade 9 or 10 (or someone has a stiff club), or when LHO has the doubleton club but ruffs in with a stiff spade 9 or 10.

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly do you intend to do this? You seem to need to take two rounds of clubs and three rounds of diamonds before drawing trumps, which pushes the odds down.

Wouldn't he draw trumps, 2 clubs, 3 diamonds, pitching club if the Q hasn't shown up, ruff club, heart guess?

Quote

I might prefer the slightly different line (which also needs three rounds of diamonds to stand up) of win the opening e.g. diamond lead, cash three diamonds discarding a heart, trump to dummy, heart towards hand.

I also think the diamond first line is better (in general, not on actual layout of course).

[jdonn]

Stephen Tu, on Jan 22 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

Quote

Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly do you intend to do this? You seem to need to take two rounds of clubs and three rounds of diamonds before drawing trumps, which pushes the odds down.

Wouldn't he draw trumps, 2 clubs, 3 diamonds, pitching club if the Q hasn't shown up, ruff club, heart guess?

Yes of course. No reason to draw trumps first.

Quote

Quote

I might prefer the slightly different line (which also needs three rounds of diamonds to stand up) of win the opening e.g. diamond lead, cash three diamonds discarding a heart, trump to dummy, heart towards hand.

I also think the diamond first line is better (in general, not on actual layout of course).

I intentionally showed the easy to analyze line without really considering if the other is better. If the odds of making (ignoring a 5-0 trump break and such) are the odds of the club queen falling plus half of the rest of the time, then clearly slam is a reasonable amount above 50% (and that ignores that you are likely to guess hearts correctly more than half the time, sometimes with help from anxious defenders). If there is a better line, then the point is simply all the more true.