[dicklont]

Scoring: IMP

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We found 6♣ after
1♣ - 1♦
1NT - 3♣
5♣ - 6♣

North thought 3♣ was inviting, and accepted a slight gamble.
South said it was forcing and could only bid the small slam now.
He would have liked to find out more.

Any comments and advice?

[helene_t]

3♣ as forcing is not standard. Bid 4♣, or go through CBS/NMF or whatever you play.

[the hog]

The Grand is not that great without the J of Ds. You would need to rely on a 3-3 S break or ruff 2H in hand. If Lho leads a s/t S how are you going to cross to dummy to draw trumps after ruffing 2Hs.

Sure you can find the DJ laying a relay system but I don't think that is the answer you want.

[jdonn]

The_Hog, on Jan 20 2009, 04:16 AM, said:

The Grand is not that great without the J of Ds. You would need to rely on a 3-3 S break or ruff 2H in hand. If Lho leads a s/t S how are you going to cross to dummy to draw trumps after ruffing 2Hs.

Sure you can find the DJ laying a relay system but I don't think that is the answer you want.

J♦, or J♣, or J♠, and even with none of them its not so terrible. I would certainly want to be there if all north's cards below aces were random jacks or smaller.

Anyway this is a hard problem to answer because really it's completely dependent on system.

[Codo]

I hate the bidding.
When south had played with me he may play 3 ♣ + 4 when I had gambled to pass with this ultraflat 13 HCPS opposite 11-12.
3 ♣ is not forcing to me and I guess that for once this is a majority view.

5 ♣ with a totally balanced hand and both majors stopped was another bid out of the blue.


So the advice: Be sure what is forcing and what is not. There should be a way that South asks North about his approx. shape and his aces. Then he can place the contract with some confidence in 7 Club. Josh told you why.

[brianshark]

Doesn't the 3NT response to 1♣ show precisely this hand? After that, 4♣ and a bunch of cuebids or keycard might get you to 6 or 7.

[gwnn]

brianshark, on Jan 20 2009, 03:23 PM, said:

Doesn't the 3NT response to 1♣ show precisely this hand? After that, 4♣ and a bunch of cuebids or keycard might get you to 6 or 7.

?!

[jtfanclub]

brianshark, on Jan 20 2009, 08:23 AM, said:

Doesn't the 3NT response to 1♣ show precisely this hand? After that, 4♣ and a bunch of cuebids or keycard might get you to 6 or 7.

North opened 1♣.

Unless you're playing some kind of short club system, I can't see what's wrong with 3NT over 3♣ whether 3♣ is forcing or not.

[Flameous]

I'd splinter 3!H after 1NT. I guess it could also be an auto splinter (have to ask my regular p about that) but even if it was, I think later club bids should show support.

[mike777]

2d over 1nt as game force xyz checkback.

btw strongly prefer 1s rather than respond 1d, Walsh style.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

3C is nonforcing, at least for me.

If South wants to force to game and investigate slam,
he can bid 4C, which is forcing, ... and it is certainly
not Gerber.

After 4C, opener bids 4H, and responder can check
for key cards, will find all, and can bid 7C, if he wants,
although I am not sure 7C is really good enough to bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[skjaeran]

I'd bid:
1♣ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♦
2NT - 3♣
3♥ - 3♠
4♣ - 4♦
4♠ - 4NT
5♦ - 7♣

East showing ♠, GF, ♣ support.
West showing a balanced hand with 3♠s and accepting the slam try.

[debussy]

I play 2way nmf. Here is my suggested bidding sequence:

1c-1d (natural, 4+ D)
1nt (balanced hand, does
not deny 4 card major,
however cannot have 4M+4c)-2nt (gf, 4-4-4-1 with unspecified singleton)
3c (forced) - 3h (singleton H)
3nt (with H stop) -4nt (RKC in clubs, only suit bid so far)
5c (3 key cards) - 7c (worth trying; pass or correct)

Admittedly, one minor flaw with this sequence is that if opener happens to have 3-4-3-3, we might be in trouble (he could try 7nt and hope for the best). Otherwise we will find a 4-4 fit grand slam. Remember opener may also have 4-3-3-3, and he will correct to 7s. With 3-3-3-4, or 3/2-4-4 (less likely since he would have opened 1d) 7c or 7d would be the right contract.

[debussy]

Actually I'd like to modify my previous suggested bidding sequence to following.
Again based on 2way nmf.

1c-1d (natural, 4+ D)
1nt (balanced hand, does
not deny 4 card major,
however cannot have 4M+4c)-2d (gf)
2nt (denies 4 card major and 5 clubs,
so holding has to be 3-3-3-4) - 3c (establish trump)
3h (H stop, good hand, otherwise 3nt) -4nt (RKC for clubs)
5c (3 key cards) - 7c

[sheepman]

1♣-1♥ (1♣- nat/bal, 1♥-xfer)
1♠-2♦ (1♠-11-13 Bal, 2♦-ART GF [2 way checkback])
2♠-2NT
3♣-4♥ (4♥-splinter)

Or just 1C-1S-1N-2D-blah playing standard

Looks a good start, some cuebidding and maybe some cannon would take care of the rest, north has the absolute nuts, couldn't have a better hand.

[Fluffy]

skaeran, on Jan 21 2009, 08:06 PM, said:

I'd bid:
1♣ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♦
2NT - 3♣
3♥ - 3♠
4♣ - 4♦
4♠ - 4NT
5♦ - 7♣

East showing ♠, GF, ♣ support.
West showing a balanced hand with 3♠s and accepting the slam try.

I remember spending hours debating what the difference of bidding 2♠ and 2NT should be, in the end we agreed on something so complicated that neither of us remembers any more. Do you have anything simple and efficent for that?.



About the hand, trying something without XYZ

1♣-1♦
1NT-2♣ (Stayman)
2♦-3♥
3♠-4♣
4♥-4NT.....

[skjaeran]

Fluffy, on Jan 25 2009, 11:46 AM, said:

skaeran, on Jan 21 2009, 08:06 PM, said:

I'd bid:
1♣ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♦
2NT - 3♣
3♥ - 3♠
4♣ - 4♦
4♠ - 4NT
5♦ - 7♣

East showing ♠, GF, ♣ support.
West showing a balanced hand with 3♠s and accepting the slam try.

I remember spending hours debating what the difference of bidding 2♠ and 2NT should be, in the end we agreed on something so complicated that neither of us remembers any more. Do you have anything simple and efficent for that?.



About the hand, trying something without XYZ

1♣-1♦
1NT-2♣ (Stayman)
2♦-3♥
3♠-4♣
4♥-4NT.....

I play 1♣-1♥-2♠ as 4-card support and 13-14.
A delayed 2♠ shows the same with 11-12.

So we don't have the possibility to distinguish other things with 2♠/2NT in the XYZ sequence.