[Helmer]

Scoring: IMP

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My partner strongly blamed me for opening 2 ♣ on the above hand.

What is your opening bid?
Do you agree with opening 2 ♣ - when it is the only strong bid you have?
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My partner blamed me for opening 2 ♣ on the hand above.
My comment was that I'd do so until the day I die.
He replied: "Die quickly for the bridge community I mean."

2♣-2♦
2♥-3♣
3♠-4♦
4♥-4 NT
5♠-6 NT doubled and redoubled, 1 down.

... a little later...
he opened
1♦-2♠(weak)
3 NT-4 ♠ (doubled) ---- would be one off
4 NT...... 4 down.....
MODIFIED:
Weak WAS agreed
He had - K - Kxx - AK10xxx - Kxx
I had - J10987xx - xx - x - xxx

Yes, I am not going to play with him again.....

[jillybean]

No, I open 1♥ You will never describe this hand after opening 2♣

[Codo]

Sorry, but you deserved each other as partners.

Hand one: I have the majors and nearly a slam in hand, so 2 ♣ will often work despite the fact that you have a two suiter.
But 1 Heart is fine too. You have 15 HCps, so the bidding won'T stop there.

6 NT and the XX are quite silly, but sometimes people make silly things.

In your second example: Did you discuss that 2 ♠ is weak? This is not yet standard and I would not use this bid w/o discussion, because I would guess that for one half (including you and me) it is weak, but for the rest it is strong.

And even when you are sure that partner understood you right, you have no reason at all to bid 4 Spade. You showed your hand already, didn't you? So you not only have no reason, bidding 4 Spade is plain silly.

[Gerben42]

Bridge is a partnership game. Your partnership here is playing as opponents rather than partners, that can't work. The real problem is not if 2♣ is right or wrong. The problem is the lack of coorporation.

[the hog]

1H for me. It is difficult to describe 2 suited hands after opening 2C.

On the second hand - pulling your partner's 3NT bid to 4S is total masterminding. Your partner heard your bid and , assuming you were both in agreement as to what the bid meant, said she wanted to play 3NT. Why do you think you should overrule her decision?

[Fluffy]

2♣ is a very bad bid IMO.

I prefer a partner who opens 1♠ than one who opens 2♣.

[andy_h]

Fluffy, on Jan 9 2009, 07:06 PM, said:

I prefer a partner who opens 1♠ than one who opens 2♣.

Hmmmm lol.

Anyway, this is an easy 1H opener. 2C takes away a lot of bidding space to bid out shapely hands like this and good luck if the opponents start pre-empting in a minor after a 2C opening.

[shevek]

You survived 2♣ up to a point.
Don't understand 5♠ over 4NT, which is surely natural.
Just retreat to 5♥ & pray for a pass.

In the second hand, give up over 3NT. For all you know opener may have a spade void and 9 running tricks outside. If 4♠ is right, then 2♠ was wrong.

[P_Marlowe]

1H.

I would not blame you for opening 2C, but try to convince you,
that opening 1H is better.
It partly depends on your methods after 2C, but I would say 1H
will workout better most of the time.

In the seq. you gave 4s instead of 4H sounds better, 4H showes
something like 6-4.
.............................................................................................
The 2nd hand, it of course depends on your hand, unless your
hand is really unusal, 4S over 3NT tells p, he is an idiot, it
may well be, that previous boards have already told you this,
but ... 2S showed your hand, and only a 7 card suit would justify
4S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Hanoi5]

The problem with opening 1♥ is that it can be passed out. You have both Majors, outside points are mostly in the minors and so I think I'll probably open 2♣, too. What did your partner have?

The problem with opening 2♣ is that you don't have defensive values (i.e. would you accept your partner's double of 5♣ after 2♣-5♣-X=P=??) and if you catch your partner with many points (the ones you're missing in the minors) and an apparently unfitting hand he might try to play NT, as he did. Also, bid 4♠ instead of 4♥.

[whereagles]

Helmer, on Jan 9 2009, 07:31 AM, said:

My partner strongly blamed me for opening 2 ♣ on the above hand.

I'll have the Devil arrange for the largest boiling water cauldron when he arrives

[whereagles]

guys, if you don't open 2♣ on this one, you might as well play 2♣ as a WEAK 2. At least you get to use the opening some of the time....

[P_Marlowe]

Hanoi5, on Jan 9 2009, 05:48 AM, said:

The problem with opening 1♥ is that it can be passed out. You have both Majors, outside points are mostly in the minors and so I think I'll probably open 2♣, too. What did your partner have?

The problem with opening 2♣ is that you don't have defensive values (i.e. would you accept your partner's double of 5♣ after 2♣-5♣-X=P=??) and if you catch your partner with many points (the ones you're missing in the minors) and an apparently unfitting hand he might try to play NT, as he did. Also, bid 4♠ instead of 4♥.

The risk, that it gets passed out, is low, I would say
nonexisting, but the risk exists, but it is low:

You have 15HCP, i.e. not even half of the pot, and there
are 25 cards in the minors suit missing, believe me, they
will bid.

The issue witha 2C opening is not the lack of defensive values,
but that you will have a hard time to show the wild distribution
below the 4 level.
The seq., which occurred on the table is an example.
Switch the majors, and opening 2C has a lot more appeal,
because in this case, the auction would have gone something
like

2C - 2D
2S - ... (not fit showing)
3H - ... (not fit showing)
4H -

And if you by passed 3NT, partner will place you with 6-5,
but with the actual hand, your last bid will be 4S, i.e. you
will have to play 5H, if hearts is suits p better.

And I did not even mention, how well / ill placed you will be, if
they preempt after a 2C opening.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[HeavyDluxe]

As has been stated, I think 2♣ is not the best bid for this hand.

That said - and risking a threadjack - would any of the 1♥ openers instead open 2♣, intending to bull-in-a-china-shop their way to 4M, if partner was a passed hand?

[babalu1997]

Well I would drop the partner for his ignorant comment.

In fact a 2 club bid generally shows 4 defensive tricks.

It is in fact the lack of defensive tricks that inspired the creation of the namyats convention.

But there are some players who do open this hand 2 clubs, so i guess one could take a pick on how they play.

The reason i dislike opening these hands 2 clubs is that the opps have a real chance of intervening and buying the contract.

Whereas when my opening bid of 2 clubs, with 4+ defensive tricks, is tampered with, i can send the opps to cry in their bed, where it is warm.

[ArtK78]

whereagles, on Jan 9 2009, 06:28 AM, said:

guys, if you don't open 2♣ on this one, you might as well play 2♣ as a WEAK 2. At least you get to use the opening some of the time....

You cannot be serious.

It would never occur to me to open this hand 2♣.

I posted in another thread the hand I held last Sunday in a Sectional Swiss. My RHO opened 1♣ and I held at unfavorable:

AKJxxxx --- AKQxxx ---

I overcalled 1♠. And, when I discussed this hand with a number of players whose opinion I respect, they all overcall 1♠.

Are you saying I should do something over 1♣ that is forcing? Or perhaps leap to a slam immediately, fearing that it could go 1♠ - All Pass?

There is virtually no chance that the 5-7-1-0 15 count will get passed out. There is just too much distribution and high cards out there for that to happen. The bidding after a 1♥ opening bid is SO much easier than it is over a 2♣ opening bid, especially if the opponents interfere.

******************

The second hand is interesting. IF YOU PLAY WEAK JUMP SHIFTS, then your bid is correct. But you have to assume that your partner knows what you are playing and that his bids are correct as well. He could hold:

x Ax AKQJxxx Axx

(please, no discussion whether this is a 2♣ opening)

3NT is easy. 4♠ might make, but it is unlikely.

[Codo]

Qxxx
x
Qxxx
xxxx

xx Jx
xxx Kx
Axxx Kxxx
Axxx KQJxx

♠ AK874
♥ AQJ9732
♦ J
♣


Would you reopen with the east hand after
1 ♥ pass pass? I won't. (I would with a third spade)
This is an easy one of a suit opener with any two suits but the majors for me.
With the majors there is a chance to get passed out.

Of course I don*t claim that opening 2 Club on this hand is the master bid, but I can see more then one way to lose with opening 1 Heart.
And when the opponents have a big minor fit, they will bid it after a 1 Heart opening too, so your fears are bigger then the threat.

[bid_em_up]

Hanoi5, on Jan 9 2009, 05:48 AM, said:

The problem with opening 1♥ is that it can be passed out.

1♥ is never going to be passed out on this holding, at least not by any non-expert opponents and by very few expert ones either. There are 25 missing HCP, and 25 cards missing in the minors as well.

Someone will have either:

1) a response to 1H (your partner)
2) a takeout double of hearts
3) some sort of 2 suited overcall or
4) a long minor of their own.

Worrying about it going 1H all pass on this kind of holding is a waste of mental energy, imo.

[whereagles]

ArtK78, on Jan 9 2009, 03:21 PM, said:

whereagles, on Jan 9 2009, 06:28 AM, said:

guys, if you don't open 2♣ on this one, you might as well play 2♣ as a WEAK 2. At least you get to use the opening some of the time....

You cannot be serious.

It would never occur to me to open this hand 2♣.

I'm absolutely serious.

The biggest advantage of a 2♣ opener is the fact that it puts an UPPER BOUND on a 1 level opener. I simply cannot believe it's right to open 1♥ on both mediocre 11-12 hands and 10-11 tricks monsters.

[Fluffy]

This 2♣ opeing reminds me of the hand last year where RHO opened 2♣, and I had a real 2♣ opening (I mean more than 20 HCP with an own suit).

Opening 2♣ with this hand is borderline for a penalty, if psyche 2♣ opening bids are forbidden.