[MarkDean]

Scoring: IMP

1♥ 1♠
?

---

My counterpart in a team match was a quite strong player and made a call that baffles me - trying to see whether just I am crazy or we both are.

My first attempt at a poll - if it does not work, please just post your bid.

[kfay]

Spoiler

3 spades!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for me

[andy_h]

Easy 3S. 6-4 and 3 bullets.

[rogerclee]

3s, I dislike every other option.

I want to emphasize that on shapely weak hands like this, bidding 4♦/4♠ is a bad idea even when it is right on values (it's close here) because partner is not going to pass 3♠ anyway. When the opponents stay out of the auction like this, it is illogical to worry about missing game opposite a perfecto 6-count, in practice this hand will occur very infrequently. Given that you will basically never miss game by bidding 3♠ (and if you do, it is far from clear that this is bad), you just want to make the bid that puts your side in the best position in case partner wants to try for slam. 4♦ will just get you to way too many bad slams, since partner will expect something like your hand plus an extra working king.

[jillybean]

Spoiler

Hooked on splinters, 4♦ is a lot more fun.

[ochinko]

3♠ has no alternative. I could have more controls with these points only with a ♦ void. If we have a ♥ fit, hearts will be our source of side tricks. If not, there will be a ♥/minor crossruff.

♠AKxx ♥Axxxxx ♦x ♣Ax would be 4♠

♠AKxx ♥AKxxxx ♦x ♣Ax would be 4♦

[dicklont]

3♠ partner can hold a minimum with ♦ values.
But it's tempting to bid 4♠ right away, maybe you should because it's IMP's.

4♦ would really be an overbid.
If you can show the diamond splinter lower and not GF you have the best agreement for this hand.

[Fluffy]

Early in the morning I voted for 4♠, maybe a bit exagerated, but 6-4 I like to bid it that way.

[Hairy_Scot]

jillybean2, on Jan 6 2009, 08:51 PM, said:

Spoiler

Hooked on splinters, 4♦ is a lot more fun.

I kinda like 4♦ too.

Maybe I should seek out Jillybean2 as a possible pard

[helene_t]

dicklont, on Jan 6 2009, 09:33 AM, said:

3♠ partner can hold a minimum with ♦ values.
But it's tempting to bid 4♠ right away, maybe you should because it's IMP's.

4♦ would really be an overbid.

I don't think 4♠ is weaker than 4♦. 4♠ should deny a small singleton, typically 19 balanced or equivalent with a 4522 or a stiff honor.

[ochinko]

helene_t, on Jan 6 2009, 02:41 PM, said:

dicklont, on Jan 6 2009, 09:33 AM, said:

3♠ partner can hold a minimum with ♦ values.
But it's tempting to bid 4♠ right away, maybe you should because it's IMP's.

4♦ would really be an overbid.

I don't think 4♠ is weaker than 4♦. 4♠ should deny a small singleton, typically 19 balanced or equivalent with a 4522 or a stiff honor.

I think if it isn't it should be. 4♠ just closes the bidding whereas 4♦ is a clear slam invitation with a ♠ fit. You could bid 4♠ even with minimum points: ♠KQxx-♥Axxxxx-♦void-♣Axx.

When you're limited it doesn't make sense to invite even with a shortness. Your partner can still investigate further with their own extras.

[dicklont]

helene_t, on Jan 6 2009, 12:41 PM, said:

dicklont, on Jan 6 2009, 09:33 AM, said:

3♠ partner can hold a minimum with ♦ values.
But it's tempting to bid 4♠ right away, maybe you should because it's IMP's.

4♦ would really be an overbid.

I don't think 4♠ is weaker than 4♦. 4♠ should deny a small singleton, typically 19 balanced or equivalent with a 4522 or a stiff honor.

I bid balanced 18/19 hands through 2NT, which is forcing and could have a fit in partners ♥/♠ suit.
Therefore the immediate rebid to game shows an unbalanced hand that is not strong enough to splinter.

[helene_t]

dicklont, on Jan 6 2009, 01:23 PM, said:

I bid balanced 18/19 hands through 2NT, which is forcing and could have a fit in partners ♥/♠ suit.
Therefore the immediate rebid to game shows an unbalanced hand that is not strong enough to splinter.

Right, I do that too with my Dutch partners, here in England people play 2NT as non-forcing and that is what most of the North American experts do, too.

[Viren169]

4S for me... I know it's an over bid but hopefully pd will go mad in the bidding!

- 4S will have play opposite as little as Kxxxx spades and out
- only worry is that Pd will go on

BR
Viren

[Fluffy]

helene_t, on Jan 6 2009, 11:41 AM, said:

dicklont, on Jan 6 2009, 09:33 AM, said:

3♠ partner can hold a minimum with ♦ values.
But it's tempting to bid 4♠ right away, maybe you should because it's IMP's.

4♦ would really be an overbid.

I don't think 4♠ is weaker than 4♦. 4♠ should deny a small singleton, typically 19 balanced or equivalent with a 4522 or a stiff honor.

I think the standard aproach is that 4 spades is a gambling bid, tipycally based on long minor, while splinter pictures a slam aproach hand, wich by definition will be a lot stronger.

with 19 balanced most people rebid 2NT even with fit.

[y66]

Is pard breathing? 3S

[keylime]

3♠, down the middle bid.

[bid_em_up]

I will take the low road and bid a simple 2♠.

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on Jan 6 2009, 07:40 AM, said:

helene_t, on Jan 6 2009, 11:41 AM, said:

dicklont, on Jan 6 2009, 09:33 AM, said:

3♠ partner can hold a minimum with ♦ values.
But it's tempting to bid 4♠ right away, maybe you should because it's IMP's.

4♦ would really be an overbid.

I don't think 4♠ is weaker than 4♦. 4♠ should deny a small singleton, typically 19 balanced or equivalent with a 4522 or a stiff honor.

I think the standard aproach is that 4 spades is a gambling bid, tipycally based on long minor, while splinter pictures a slam aproach hand, wich by definition will be a lot stronger.

with 19 balanced most people rebid 2NT even with fit.

That may be standard in some parts of the world (I am not being sarcastic... I accept that it really may be) but is it not standard in NA. A 2N rebid can be passed, and so we need 4♠ for the balanced near-2N opening bid with 4 spades. It is not gambling.. we don't need it as gambling, because we have splinter bids and invitational raises for shapely hands, and a partner who enjoys being allowed to have input into the game-no game decisions.

To me this looks like a wtp 3♠ call. Partner doesn't need much to make a move over this, whether that be to a game or towards a slam.. in the latter case, I like my controls and will co-operate enthusiastically.

I don't like the splinter, altho it would be my second choice.

I have adequate controls (to say the least) but I have no internal fillers... and while I love controls in a slam context, we will need significant internal fillers to generate slam, unless partner has extra shape. In either case... extra shape or significant fillers, he can make a move over 3♠. But he may make a move over 4♦ with somewhat fewer assets, and once we cue beyond game, we may be propelled too high before we identify our weaknesses... if I splinter and he co-operates, through keycard or cueing, we will be at the 6 level for sure and we may not belong there.

[whereagles]

Fluffy, on Jan 6 2009, 08:43 AM, said:

Early in the morning I voted for 4♠, maybe a bit exagerated, but 6-4 I like to bid it that way.

There is a point to this. In fact, it probably makes opposite as little as

KQJxx
xx
xxx
xxx

But I'll just bid 3♠. Not because I fear getting overboard in game, but in SLAM (if I bid 4 and pard takes me too seriously).