[H_KARLUK]

Scoring: XIMP

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1♣   3♥   P   4♥   
?

[Fluffy]

This looks like a joke, I would open 1♠, but since I made the great guess of opening 1♣ where is the problem?

[Cascade]

At last a unanimous poll.

[manudude03]

not anymore. Looks like someone decided to hide the 5 spades (not I).

[mikeh]

I don't understand the post... is there a real bridge player who would even think of any action other than 4♠?

I mean, isn't this auction one of the reasons we open 1♣? The ability to show our hand (which, Fluffy, we couldn't do after opening 1♠).

Note that 1♠ cripples our auctions regardless of who bids hearts.. them or partner.

[TylerE]

Opening 1♠ and jumping in clubs then rebidding clubs doesn't show this fairly closely? I'll admit opening 1♠ tends to lose a ♣ fit on some auctions but so does 1♣ make it much harder to get to a spade fit (Especially a 5-2 when 4♠ is the only playable game).

[jillybean]

Fluffy, on Jan 5 2009, 11:40 AM, said:

This looks like a joke, I would open 1♠, but since I made the great guess of opening 1♣ where is the problem?

Hi Fluffy!

How do you show this hand after opening 1♠?

edit; I see others have beaten me to it

[Fluffy]

I just hide the 6th club and bit it liek I didn't have it.

with clubs and spades it is not much of an improvement actually, but with hearts and spades it is.

The big winner is when having 6 clubs and 4 spades, I can bid 4 spades over 4 hearts and my partner knows I only have 4.

[mikeh]

TylerE, on Jan 5 2009, 04:58 PM, said:

Opening 1♠ and jumping in clubs then rebidding clubs doesn't show this fairly closely? I'll admit opening 1♠ tends to lose a ♣ fit on some auctions but so does 1♣ make it much harder to get to a spade fit (Especially a 5-2 when 4♠ is the only playable game).

It is a fundamental rule of 'standard' bidding, that when one opens in one suit and then bids another, the second suit is never to be understood to be longer than the first.. the more times you bid the second suit, the longer your first suit is assumed to be.

Yes, we all (or most of us) will 'lie' a little when we hold an inconvenient 5-6 with minimal values.. but the point is that by agreement, our partner will always assume that our suits are of equal length or, if unequal, that the first bid one will be the longer. Any other agreement leads to confusion in our constructive bidding.

Note: I am stipulating standard methods: different considerations apply to methods that are designed on different lines (canape, some strong club methods to name a couple).

As for opening this hand and jumping in clubs.... sorry.. but we hold a 13 count and we are going to jumpshift into clubs over a 1N response to 1♠? Forgive me while I barf... a gf js on this hand?

As for convenience... surely everyone recognizes that clubs then spades is the most economical auction imaginable? I cannot imagine any opposition or partner action that makes 1♠ lead to an auction as simple as 1♣... even recognizing Nuno's argument that 1♣ then 4♠ will be known to be on a 4-bagger... which of course begs the question of how frequently one is going to open 1♣ then bid 4♠ with that shape.. surely not with KQJ10 A10 x Q10xxxx?

Let's just look at a very simple and high probability non-contested auction or two.

Give partner a red suit response... surely reasonable?

1♠ 2♦ 3♣ 3N.... are we happy?

1♣ 1♦ 1♠ 2♥ 2♠ 2N 3♣/♠ 3N, where 2♥ was an artificial gf...

I know which auction I am going to be more comfortable with.

or maybe partner doesn't have a gf?

1♠ 1N... now, 2♣ will often be on 3 cards (for many, could be two). So partner bids.... well, if we play Bart, then things get complicated, but what if he bids something else? 3♦, for example, if we play that as invitational with diamonds. Surely we can agree that starting with 1♣ makes all these auctions easier?

That's not to say that 1♠ will never work.. but that's not the point.. the point is which approach will most often work best.


As for finding a 5-2 spade game... well, if the opps don't jam us irretrievably (in which case I defy you to find the fit anyway... unless you are opening 1♠ and rebidding 4♠ all by yourself), I am going to have an incredibly easy time of showing 5=6 in the blacks... and partner can tell what to do... if his hand tells him that a 5-2 fit is best, I trust him to bid it. BTW, a 5-2 spade fit on this auction probably won't be best.. spades are not likely to be 3-3, and we rate to get tapped, even if they are kind enough to lead hearts.

[skjaeran]

4♠ for me, as for everyone (one exception!?!).

Agree with opening 1♣ (of course) and everything Mike wrote above.

[nige1]

H_KARLUK, on Jan 5 2009, 01:01 PM, said:

Dealer: East Vul: E/W Scoring: XIMP

♠ KQJT2 ♥ AT ♦   ♣ AQ9543

1♣   3♥   P   4♥    ?

IMO 4♠ = 10, 5♠ = 5, _X = 3, 5♣ = 2, _P = 1.

Guthrie.tech

0

• Back to top of the page up there ^

[keylime]

4♠, and almost inclined to bid 4NT followed by 5♠.

[H_KARLUK]

Scoring: XIMP

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