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trevahound, on Jan 5 2009, 05:04 PM, said:
Goodness, it's bridge. How many times per year do you pick up a 2-3 pt hand in third seat at favorable after two passes? I play a lot of bridge, and for me it's 1-3 per year, and 1-2 of those is vs someone I wouldn't psyche against (a newer player, or a C player). You're allowed to play bridge at the table. Partner doesn't field your bid, and thus there is no undisclosed agreement or understanding. The laws of bridge specifically permit psyching. In the circumstances given above, if a psyche isn't at least in your mind as a possibility with this hand, I don't know what to say. It's in mine.
Even the MSC considers their being psyched against, and this is a classic circumstance. To give another example, if you don't have any way to play in a major suit game after your side opens 1nt and gets a 2♦ (both majors) overcall, you're being stolen from, as folks factually do make this bid with a crappy four card major and steal from your side. There are other examples. I would think in the example given the 2♣ bid gives you a "free" cue bid to imply spade values, with no useful loss of bidding space, leaving you 2♥ as natural. One could certainly have the other agreement. Absent the 2♣ call, you're likely going to have a harder time of it. I wouldn't want to bet big money on opener's two round suit lengths, though, 5/5 being a better bet than 1/7, but not by enough to risk much.
Of course, if my hand were more routine, or in other circumstances, I would be less suspicious.
I find it a little off-putting that the assumption is one has an implicit agreement when one makes what at least some (if not the commenters above) might consider a practical bridge bid.
The fact that my fully disclosed third chair openings already stretch from 8hcpts to a 2♣ opener already make them so wide-ranging as to be problematic for our side -- I don't want partner ever thinking I'm opening a busted 2 count.
Finally, we routinely open 4cM with 8+ hcpts in 3rd chair, which the acbl permits without comment; over these openings, it can be your hand in our M, and it pays to have a way to show that suit.
Cheers to all,
Brian,
Seattle
Even the MSC considers their being psyched against, and this is a classic circumstance. To give another example, if you don't have any way to play in a major suit game after your side opens 1nt and gets a 2♦ (both majors) overcall, you're being stolen from, as folks factually do make this bid with a crappy four card major and steal from your side. There are other examples. I would think in the example given the 2♣ bid gives you a "free" cue bid to imply spade values, with no useful loss of bidding space, leaving you 2♥ as natural. One could certainly have the other agreement. Absent the 2♣ call, you're likely going to have a harder time of it. I wouldn't want to bet big money on opener's two round suit lengths, though, 5/5 being a better bet than 1/7, but not by enough to risk much.
Of course, if my hand were more routine, or in other circumstances, I would be less suspicious.
I find it a little off-putting that the assumption is one has an implicit agreement when one makes what at least some (if not the commenters above) might consider a practical bridge bid.
The fact that my fully disclosed third chair openings already stretch from 8hcpts to a 2♣ opener already make them so wide-ranging as to be problematic for our side -- I don't want partner ever thinking I'm opening a busted 2 count.
Finally, we routinely open 4cM with 8+ hcpts in 3rd chair, which the acbl permits without comment; over these openings, it can be your hand in our M, and it pays to have a way to show that suit.
Cheers to all,
Brian,
Seattle
I think if you open every time you have a 2-hcp in third seat then that is your agreement. The low frequency is irrelevant.
We have a specific ace-ask which I can only recalling using a couple of times in three years or so. This is still an agreement.
The problem with an agreement to open with 2-hcp at the one-level is that it is illegal in most places or a HUM in other places.
The laws are quite clear that repeated deviations like always opening with a 2-count in third seat become part of your agreements.