[happybridge]

You sit south

---

bidding goes
W N E S
- 1♥ 1♠ 4♣
4♠ 5♥?
ns:polish club,4♣=splinter but mybe too wild
now north bid 5♥, is competative or invite to 6♥?
thx

[Trpltrbl]

Sounds like pd has first round control in ♠, but he is denying first round control in minor suits. Not sure what he is bidding 5♥ on, but I will pass.

Mike

[Flame]

bids or our suit are always competitve never invite to anything.
If you want to invite you can use any other bid like 4nt 5c,5d

[inquiry]

Hi Happy. I think you really should give the vulnerability when posting a problem, expecially a high level one like this. The reason is that your partner has a number of options over 4♠. One of which might be a forcing pass, but some people might play/not play forcing pass depending upon the vulnerability. For example if WE WERE VULNERABLE, north could make a forcing pass, if we are not, his pass would not be forcing (I use Robson/Segal rules here).

But ok, this one is clear. If your partner wanted to invite to slam, forcing pass then pull the double.

So the first general question is what is a forcing pass? It occurs where we have a good fit and the balance of the power and we decide that it woiuld be wrong to let them play the hand undoubled. The pass is expresses some doubt.

This 5♥ bid probably means htey have double fit (spade and club) and your partner couldn't risk a pass then pull your double (as that invites to slam). And, if your partner wanted to mildly invite to slam (if forcing pass was available), he would cue-bid 5♣ or 5♦ on way to 5♥. So despite your excellent ♥s, the correct bid here is to pass. IF you miss a slam, it will be because your partner's choice, not yours. So, assuming pass by your partner over 4♠ was forcing.. here is what bids might mean....

PASS - express doubt as to defend or go on. Here if you double 4♠ showing a defensive (you would bid 5♥ with this hand of course), and partner now "cue-bids" at the five level, it is a strong slam try.

4NT - ok blackwood

5♣ - cue-bid mild slam try (see pass then 5♣

5♦ - cue-bid mild slam try (see pass then 5♦

5♥ - competitive to play

Ben

[mishovnbg]

Agree with Ben - 5♥ is competitive and doesn't invite slam. Flame is not exactly correct, because you can be in situation where you don't have any free bid except dbl...
Misho

[Free]

Pass, 5♥ is to play. He has enough bids to try and continue, you've shown slam invitation already, he hasn't got enough usefull stuff, and for once I don't like that ♠Q...

[Flame]

mishovnbg, on Apr 25 2004, 04:54 AM, said:

Agree with Ben - 5♥ is competitive and doesn't invite slam. Flame is not exactly correct, because you can be in situation where you don't have any free bid except dbl...
Misho

This is a case for discussion but even then the standard should be that a our suit is just competitve. examples :
1sp (2h) 2sp (3h) 3sp
no free bid but still 3sp isnt inviting, and we should use the double for invite.
1sp (2h) 3h (5h) 5sp
here pass is forcing and should be used to invite.
1sp (2h) 4sp (5h) 5sp
in most partnerships there isnt forcing pass here (maybe only red vs green) but still i would play 5sp as competitive and would have to guess what to do with invitation (not that inviting is much more accurate here)
Its best to have a simple rule : bidding our suit isnt inv, and when need to inv we should find another bid and if there isnt one avaliabe then we just cant invite.