[Gerben42]

The misunderstanding was exactly as Fred had suggested: Opener thought he was supposed to pass with 18 balanced, whereas responder expected partner to bid 3NT with that. With a pickup partner, I would bid 3NT with 18-19 balanced and expect to make it.

To everyone who brought in their favourite gadgets: This is not the place for them!

Point 1: You do not need a singleton for 1♣ - 3♣!
Point 2: Gadgets exist, but you can win the world championship without them.
Point 3: Kathryn, try to avoid playing different things with different partners. I know that's impossible, but in some situations, they should adjust and not you.

[Winstonm]

qwery_hi, on Jan 1 2009, 07:49 AM, said:

Winstonm, on Dec 31 2008, 02:01 PM, said:

Quote

I have, at times, played 1C-2D as a club raise giving three ways to raise clubs. It has merit, as 1C-3C can now be real crap while 2D shows less than 2C but some decent values. I prefer the natural (and strong) 2D. But I play this version of criss-cross raises if a partner likes them. As Codo says, tastes differ. You can be playing either way and get a hand where you wish you were playing the other way.

Ken - Here's a thought - play crisscross (2D/3C) as a transfer to show either a very weak or very strong hand. You end up with 4 minor raises.

Can you explain this a bit more? I don't understand what is the suit being transfered to
here. Thanks

Sure.

Crisscross (2D over 1C opening or 3C over 1D) is normally used as an artificial raise of the opened minor. Instead, term them transfers - 2D=3C and 3C=3D.

The one thing a transfer does is force a response - therefore the one who forces the transfer can bid again, so he can show two different had types.

My thinking would be this - using inverted minors and crisscross transfers:

Single raise = limit or game force, forcing one round
Jump raise = 6-8
Crisscross transfer = weak 0-5 (transfer and pass) or a slam try (Bid a control or possibly short suit after the transfer is accepted.)

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean2, on Dec 30 2008, 03:22 PM, said:

mike777, on Dec 30 2008, 12:09 PM, said:

If 1nt shows 8-10 and a balanced hand without a 4 card major, why invent bids?

This isnt the limit of a 1nt response in 2/1 is it?

It is.

The point is, that the 1NT in the discussed seq. occurres after
a minor suit opening.
Even playing 2/1 2NT would show 11-12 bal., unless you play
something art., a minor suit raise, what do I know.

Forcing NT gets only played after major suit openings.

One example, where this is partially relevant is

1D - 2C

an ugly start of an auction, and at least some play that
2C is not gf, even if they play that 2/1 response after any
other start is forcing.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Winstonm]

I don't know if this is on-topic or not, but I happen to agree quite strongly with Jeff Rubens of The Bridge World that inverted minors should include hands of 4-card support. This makes a hand like xxx, KQx, xxx, KQxx easier to bid. It also helps with the 1m-2NT question, allowing that bid to resume its 12-14 or 13-15 forcing role.

My suggestion in Bridge World was to use 1m-2m-2NT the same way we would use
a 1N rebid - balanced minimum and that's all it says - nothing about which suits are stopped. Therefore, a balanced minimum opposite a balanced minimum could stop in 2N in my structure.

1C-2C
2N-P

[kenberg]

Inverted minors are probably, on balance, a plus but they have been around for something like forty years and people still seem to be searching for the best way to handle them.

A partner and I had also decided at one point to play that 1m-2m could sometimes be on 4. We had our reasons but I think I will restrain myself here.

Anyway, taking Fred's comments to heart is a really good idea. 1m-3m cannot be played as maybe very weak and maybe just under 1m-2m. There are a variety of ways of following up on this fact as is apparent from the posts. My own preference, with at least the merit of simplicity, is to pass the very weak hands so that 1m-3m invites 3N with a balanced 18 count.

[qwery_hi]

To make sure that I understand this correctly, I'll try and recap what I got from this thread.

After 1♣ -
1D : could be 6-7 HCP balanced or diamonds.
1NT : 8-10 HCP, no 4 major, balanced / semi-balanced.
2♣ :
   I. 11+ HCP , 4+ clubs
   II. 6-7 HCP hands unsuitable for 1D
   III. 8-10 HCP hands unsuitable for 1NT.
2♦ : Transfer to 3♣, and then :
   I. pass = 0-6 HCP, 5+ clubs
   II. other responses show GF with 5+ clubs.
2NT : 11-12 exactly 3-3-4-3
3NT : 13-15 exactly 3-3-4-3

Note that the hands with less than 10 HCP in the 2♣ will almost always have 5+ clubs.

[Gerben42]

If you want a complete natural scheme:

1♣ - ?

1♦ = 4+♦ (either 5+♦ or 10+ HCP)
1♥♠ = 4+card, 4♦ 4M possible.
1NT = 6 - 9, no 4-card major, may have 4♦.
2♣ = 10+, 4+♣ (can be 4 cards if balanced 10-12, or some 16+ hands perhaps)
2♦♥♠ = 6 - 9, 6-card suit (or Strong Jump Shifts if you play that - this however is not part of my "beginner" system" because it violates the first principle of staying low with good hands)
2NT = 13 - 15, balanced without 4-card major
3♣ = 6 - 9, 5+♣
3NT = Does not exist

No doubt this is not "standard", but it is simple, natural and it works.

[RichMor]

fred, on Dec 30 2008, 06:17 PM, said:

Suggestion: Define the range of 3C in terms of what partner is expected to do if he holds 18-19 balanced.

It is fine if you decide 3C means "I want you to Pass with 18-19 balanced".

It is fine if you decide 3C means "I want you to bid 3NT with 18-19 balanced".

But it can only mean one of these things - it is not fine if opener doesn't know what to do whenever he has 18-19 balanced.

Once you and your partner have made this decision, you won't have as much trouble deciding when to bid 3C.

Whatever you decide, you will likely sometimes judge to "psych" a 3C bid on some hands that are slightly out of range (for tactical reasons and/or for lack of a better alternative).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

This explanation also agrees with the original K-S (weak 1 NT) definition of an inverted double raise: a hand that should not make game facing an expected 15 to 17 HCP.