[CSGibson]

Scoring: IMP

1♣-(3♣)*-?

*Natural

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What's your plan with this hand? Hidden follow ups for some possible continuations:

If you bid 3♦,

Spoiler

Partner will bid 3N

If you bid 3♠

Spoiler

Partner will bid 4 Spades

If you X

Spoiler

Partner will bid 3 Hearts

[rogerclee]

3♠, 5♣, will drive to slam.

[jdonn]

3♠, then 4♦ if he bids 3NT or else move on over 4♠. If he bids 3NT then 4NT I guess I'll pass, otherwise I expect I'll be in slam somewhere.

[mikeh]

3♠ seems clear.. I don't understand why 3♦ is viewed as an option... we can never thereafter show 5 spades without showing 6 diamonds, and we don't own 6 diamonds.. not to mention... is it clear that 3♦ then 4♠ over 3N is forcing, and what if he bids 3♥, we bid 3♠, showing 4, and he bids 3N? Surely 4♠ now is 5-6 or better?

Over: 3N, 4♦ and, over 4♠, 5♦... not 5♣, since we belong in diamonds opposite 2=3=3=5, as an example.. and 5♣ would make his 5♦ a cue, not Hxx.

We would not be 'improving' the contract from 4♠ to 5♦ without slam interest, so he will look at his spades and diamonds... Kx AJx in the suits should make him raise to 6♦.

If he repeats notrump, he gets to play 4N... 2=4=2=5 shape, with club values, will usually, but not always, make slam poor if he signs off twice, and we don't have the safety to push one more time.

[maggieb]

mikeh, on Dec 28 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

We would not be 'improving' the contract from 4♠ to 5♦ without slam interest, so he will look at his spades and diamonds... Kx AJx in the suits should make him raise to 6♦.

Mike, why is your partner frequently bidding 4♠ on 2335 shape (I admit that this is possible, but why should it be frequent enough to worry about it?), why would he interpret your 5♦ call as natural, why would he be inclined to bid 6♦ instead of 5♥ with basically all hands with slam interest and a heart control, why would your 5N after 5♦-5♥ be pick a slam between spades and diamonds instead of a grand slam try in spades (since we have never offered diamonds as a strain!)?

[mikeh]

maggieb, on Dec 28 2008, 06:14 PM, said:

mikeh, on Dec 28 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

We would not be 'improving' the contract from 4♠ to 5♦ without slam interest, so he will look at his spades and diamonds... Kx AJx in the suits should make him raise to 6♦.

Mike, why is your partner frequently bidding 4♠ on 2335 shape (I admit that this is possible, but why should it be frequent enough to worry about it?), why would he interpret your 5♦ call as natural, why would he be inclined to bid 6♦ instead of 5♥ with basically all hands with slam interest and a heart control, why would your 5N after 5♦-5♥ be pick a slam between spades and diamonds instead of a grand slam try in spades (since we have never offered diamonds as a strain!)?

You misunderstood my post... I think you are assuming that I would cue 5♦ over an immediate spade raise... and I was rebidding my diamonds after partner rebid 3N, I bid 4♦, and that elicited a spade preference... very commonly 2=3=3=5... NOW I rebid 5♦ as a natural slam try.

Reread my post with that in mind, and I think the confusion will vanish.

If partner bid 4♠ over 3♠, I drive to slam in spades, and the issue is how hard do I try to find the magic hand over there...to reach a good grand.

[Fluffy]

unless partner has 5 clubs, he is sure to have fit for one of our suits, I think I would follow up rogerclee's suggestion.

[andy_h]

3S. Over 4S, 5C

[CSGibson]

Now I'll give you both hands and ask you how the auction should go:

Scoring: IMP

North starts. RHO bids 3 clubs natural over any 1 level bid.

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[rogerclee]

I would bid

3♠ - 4♠
5♣ - 5♠
Pass

I changed my mind, I won't bid slam if partner can't cuebid either red suit after 5♣. Sorry about not giving the problem enough thought the first time around.

[benlessard]

4D leaping M. When opps make a natural bids in partner suit you dont need splinters nor fit jumps nor raises. Since 3D is forcing 4D show a 2 suiter for us.

PS im disgusted by the idea of playing takeout doubles here.

[Fluffy]

I agree with Roger again, just to note if we double, partner's 3♥ is not obvious, 3NT and pass seem like decent alternatives (specially 3NT). But that problem probably didn't arise at the table anyway .

[gnasher]

3♠-4♠
5♣-5♦
5♥-5♠

North has already shown a poor hand by bidding 4♠. To conceal ♦A a second time would be taking too much upon himself.

[Fluffy]

I disagree with gnasher, 4♠ its minimum, but since 1♣ is almost unlimited it can still be a wide variety of hands, cuebiddign with ♣KQ, weakest trumps and quacky hearts should be avoided IMO. Althou it is not obvious.

[cherdano]

Is everyone raising with the North hand? 3NT looks quite attractive to me...

After 3♠ 4♠ 5♣, I find it obvious that North should not cue with his wasted ♣KQ and not trump honor. I agree with Roger, over 4♠ I think I am moving to slam, but if partner can't make any cue that should give pause for thought, and passing 5♠ looks right. (Well I hope it makes.)

[Codo]

I had not been able to bid 5 ♣ after partners 4 ♠ raise, so there had been two possible auctions:
1. Simple RCKB, seeing two KCs and the queen missing, stopping in 5 ♠
2. Cuebidding 5 ♦ and reaching 6 Spade this way, because partner cannot conceal his nice red values now.

I would not like to have a partner who conceal his massive controls in the red suits after I made a slam try.

[gnasher]

cherdano, on Dec 30 2008, 02:57 PM, said:

After 3♠ 4♠ 5♣, I find it obvious that North should not cue with his wasted ♣KQ and not trump honor.

With Kxx KJxx AQ xxxx, wouldn't you have cue bid on the previous round?

[cherdano]

gnasher, on Dec 31 2008, 04:17 AM, said:

cherdano, on Dec 30 2008, 02:57 PM, said:

After 3♠ 4♠ 5♣, I find it obvious that North should not cue with his wasted ♣KQ and not trump honor.

With Kxx KJxx AQ xxxx, wouldn't you have cue bid on the previous round?

Even if you do, I don't think this proves anything - this hand looks about two tricks better in terms of playing a spade contract than the actual hand. (I would need a little more to cue.)