[Chamaco]

Hi all !
Here is another question for you strongclubber friends !!

Thanks all !!!!!
----------------------------------

Assume you play Precision, 13-15 notrump, and ANY balanced hand 16+ is opened via 1C because 2NT opening has other meanings (first step of strong balanced is 16-18, not my preference but this is not what I'd like to discuss here, probably it deserves another post, so expect one soon !! ).

Also assume that in sequences like 1♣:1♥♠ or 1♣:2♣♦, which show 5+ cards and 8+ hcp, opener single raise is a Trump Asking Bid (TAB).


Question 1)
Opener's jump raise shows 4 card support. But is it necessarily a request for cuebid ? Or could it be a normal hand with 4 card support ?
It seems to me that playing a jump raise as a request of cuebids while repsonder is still unlimited may be cumbersome ?

Question 2)
What is the difference between these 2 auctions (namely a jump raise and a raise to game): 1♣:1M:3M and 1♣:1M:4M?
Does the latter make sense at all ? (It seems to me it wastes lot of bidding space when responder still has to limit his hand)

Question 3) Actually this is more a set of examples related to the previous questions, to help clarify my doubts !.

1♣:1♠:?

What do you bid with

Hand 1
♠AQxx ♥AJx♦xx♣KQJx

Hand 2
♠AQxx ♥AJx♦Ax♣KQJx

[csdenmark]

In Belladonna/Garozzo(standard and super precision) you bid in both cases 1NT asking for controls.
-Hand 1 you may bid 3♠ for trump asking
-Hand 2 you may bid 2♠ for slam investigations.

In Viking you bid 1NT as game force relay for clarification.

In Power Precision you bid 1NT asking for controls with no long suit of your own.

In Meckwell 1♠ is a transfer meaning 5+cd♥.
- Hand 1 you bid 1NT asking for controls
- Hand 2 is to be opened 2NT as the range there is 19-21.
Meckwell is here similar to Keylime Precision and Currified Precision.

[Chamaco]

Ty Claus, unfortunately we are not playing any of these versions, we do not use 1NT as relay nor control ask.
I am sure your suggestions are well-motivated, as usual, but I need to be practical:
I am having some trouble to get my teammates involved into plain Precision, TABs, CABs, etc etc, and they will kill me if I even try to suggest this.
And I want to survive the next brainstorming session on the system !!

So, we play that 1NT in this sequence is natural, showing either the minimum range (16-18) or the alternate range (22+), and we jump bid NT with the intermediate (19-21).
[Please let's not discuss these ranges here... ]

Also, bidding NT tends to deny good trump support (is this reasonable?).
So, reverting to the previous hands and questions, what is the best policy if you do not have available 1NT as asking for controls? Thanks !!

[OSH]

Chamaco, on May 10 2004, 04:51 AM, said:

And I want to survive the next brainstorming session on the system !!

WE want to survive the next brainstorming session on the system !!

[inquiry]

Chamaco, on May 10 2004, 03:55 AM, said:

Hi all !
Here is another question for you strongclubber friends !!

Thanks all !!!!!
----------------------------------

Assume you play Precision, 13-15 notrump, and ANY balanced hand 16+ is opened via 1C because 2NT opening has other meanings (first step of strong balanced is 16-18, not my preference but this is not what I'd like to discuss here, probably it deserves another post, so expect one soon !! ).

Also assume that in sequences like 1♣:1♥♠ or 1♣:2♣♦, which show 5+ cards and 8+ hcp, opener single raise is a Trump Asking Bid (TAB).


Question 1)
Opener's jump raise shows 4 card support. But is it necessarily a request for cuebid ? Or could it be a normal hand with 4 card support ?
It seems to me that playing a jump raise as a request of cuebids while repsonder is still unlimited may be cumbersome ?

Question 2)
What is the difference between these 2 auctions (namely a jump raise and a raise to game): 1♣:1M:3M and 1♣:1M:4M?
Does the latter make sense at all ? (It seems to me it wastes lot of bidding space when responder still has to limit his hand)

Question 3) Actually this is more a set of examples related to the previous questions, to help clarify my doubts !.

1♣:1♠:?

What do you bid with

Hand 1
♠AQxx ♥AJx♦xx♣KQJx

Hand 2
♠AQxx ♥AJx♦Ax♣KQJx

Hi,

I use 1♣-1♠; 3♠ to show a minimumish 1♣ opening bid. That is, I save the direct raise for a hand that will have at least some slam ambition opposite a minimum positive response. The reason being, once you start with TAB, then new suits are epsilon (or control asking bids). If you have a lot of stuff you need to ask about, not enough room, and you don't allow your parnter to express himself. So use the jump to keep from taking control.

On your example hands, the first one I would bid 3♠, maybe 4♠ would be better. On the second hand, I would bid 2♠.

Ben

[bearmum]

Chamaco, on May 10 2004, 10:51 PM, said:

Ty Claus, unfortunately we are not playing any of these versions, we do not use 1NT as relay nor control ask.
I am sure your suggestions are well-motivated, as usual, but I need to be practical:
I am having some trouble to get my teammates involved into plain Precision, TABs, CABs, etc etc, and they will kill me    if I even try to suggest this.
And I want to survive the next brainstorming session on the system !! 

So, we play that 1NT in this sequence is natural, showing either the minimum range (16-18) or the alternate range (22+), and we jump bid NT with the intermediate (19-21).
[Please let's not discuss these ranges here... ]

Also, bidding NT tends to deny good trump support (is this reasonable?).
So, reverting to the previous hands and questions, what is the best policy if you do not have available 1NT as asking for controls? Thanks !!

I agree - in MY Belladonna/Garozzo " Precision and Super-precision Bidding"©1975 in the "Standard " section over 1♣ 1♠ 2♠ is a 'modified trump asking bid' forcing to game ans MAY show a slam going hand(DIRECT quote from book)
Responses
1st step ----- NO A K or Q 5+ suit
2nd step ----- 1 top Honour 5 card suit
3rd step ----- 2 top honours 5 card suit
4th step ------ 1 H 6 card suit
5th step ------ 2 H 6 card suit

A JUMP raise of responder's suit shows 18-19 with 4 trumps (OR 3 cards to 2 Honours --------- passing slam decision to responder - who NEEDS to have at least 3 controls to even THINK about slam

[bearmum]

Chamaco, on May 10 2004, 09:55 PM, said:

Hi all !
Here is another question for you strongclubber friends !! 

Thanks all !!!!! 
----------------------------------

Assume you play Precision, 13-15 notrump, and ANY balanced hand 16+ is opened via 1C because 2NT opening has other meanings (first step of strong balanced is 16-18, not my preference but this is not what I'd like to discuss here, probably it deserves another post, so expect one soon !!  ).

Also assume that in sequences like 1♣:1♥♠ or 1♣:2♣♦, which show 5+ cards and 8+ hcp, opener single raise is a Trump Asking Bid (TAB).


Question 1)
Opener's jump raise shows 4 card support. But is it necessarily a request for cuebid ? Or could it be a normal hand with 4 card support ?
It seems to me that playing a jump raise as a request of cuebids while repsonder is still unlimited may be cumbersome ?

Question 2)
What is the difference between these 2 auctions (namely a jump raise and a raise to game): 1♣:1M:3M  and 1♣:1M:4M?
Does the latter make sense at all ? (It seems to me it wastes lot of bidding space when responder still has to limit his hand)

Question 3) Actually this is more a set of examples related to the previous questions, to help clarify my doubts !. 

1♣:1♠:?

What do you bid with

Hand 1
♠AQxx ♥AJx♦xx♣KQJx

Hand 2
♠AQxx ♥AJx♦Ax♣KQJx

WOW OK the way I play Precision ( an amalgam of Belladonna/Garrozzo and Jannersen I admit)
1NT = 13-15 and NOT 2 4 C Majors
1♣ is 16+ ANY distribution EXCEPT balanced 22-23(which is 2NT Opener)
1♣ 1♦ 1NT=16-19
1♣ 1♦ 2NT=20-21
1♣ 1♦ 3NT= 24-26
2♦ is 11-15 and singleton or VIOD diamond ( NO 4 CM)
2♥ and 2♠ 8-10 6 Card suit NO other 4 card suit


SO in answer to your questions

Q1 we play jump to GAME in responders suit - MINIMUM 1♣ opener 16-17 with 4 card support (responder is in charge of going for slam)

Q2 the 1♣ 1M 3M shows BETTER than minimum with 4 card support (OR 3 to TWO honours) - responder in charge of whether to try for slam via Q bid OR B/W ---- whereas 1♣ 1M 4M shows minimun hand with 4 card M support (principle of fast arrival) -- RESPONDER can decide to go on from there with a good hand

Q3 playing 1♣1♠ 2♠ as trump asking with responses as my previous post i would bid 2♠ with BOTH hands as I want to KNOW what responders spades are before making a decision

[tysen2k]

I prefer the methods suggested in Rigal's "Precision in the 90s":

1C-1M:

2M = trump ask
3M = 19+ singleton somewhere
4M = dead minimum

[csdenmark]

By a friend I have been corrected and therefore deleted the content of this post.

This post has been edited by csdenmark: 2004-May-10, 18:00