[Quarky]

Google search produces various definitions of what responses are the "standard" Ogust. This led to a misbid in a match, due to different understandings of Ogust responses.

[Echognome]

I learned them as LSPA (which was neat since at the time I was living in Leamington Spa, UK).

Lousy (BH, BS)
Suit (BH, GS)
Points (GH, BS)
All (GH, GS)

Don't forget the 3NT bid showing a solid suit.

[jdonn]

Your second option is the correct answer. Whatever website you got your first option from is confused and wrong.

A lot of people seem to have trouble remembering, and for sure there are certain things in life I can't remember for the life of me, but I always found this to be very easy to remember. It's completely intuitive to me that the lowest bids show the worst hands.

[Quarky]

jdonn, on Nov 21 2008, 06:10 PM, said:

Your second option is the correct answer. Whatever website you got your first option from is confused and wrong.

The weird thing is that if you look at the first dozen or so of google results, they're about half and half between these two options.

[ArtK78]

Agree with Josh. The two responses showing bad hands are the first two responses.

[Infidel]

That "intuitive" answer that the lowest response shows the worst hand should be questioned: "Fast Arrival" says to go the other way. I. e., the rebid of the suit at the 3-level should deny any interest in whatever partner is cooking up. The "feature" players do it this way; Ogust should be modified to conform. Over a 2S-2N sequence, the entire response structure can be inverted: 3S=bb; 3H=bad hand, good suit; 3d=good hand, bad suit, and 3c=gg. 2H takes a bit more work, since we can't use 3S for anything not forcing to game, but the other responses can be scrambled along fast arrival lines. OR, the Ogust "trigger" can be 1 step, rather than an arbitrary 2NT: 2H-2S is a strength/suit quality inquiry; ditto 2d-2H. Dunno if it will pass ACBL muster, though...

[han]

You can of course play whatever you like but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with the question asked.

[jdonn]

Hmmm, my own intuition vs fast arrival. I have a winner!

[han]

The fact that both options use 3C as the worst hand and 3S as the best should have provided a clue.

[david_c]

Standard is to make sure you've discussed it with partner ...

Seriously, if partner suggests Ogust I always make sure to check which way round he plays it. Both methods are common.

[peachy]

david_c, on Nov 22 2008, 05:15 AM, said:

Standard is to make sure you've discussed it with partner ...

Seriously, if partner suggests Ogust I always make sure to check which way round he plays it. Both methods are common.

Is there a basis to assume both are common? What is it?

[david_c]

peachy, on Nov 22 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

david_c, on Nov 22 2008, 05:15 AM, said:

Standard is to make sure you've discussed it with partner ...

Seriously, if partner suggests Ogust I always make sure to check which way round he plays it. Both methods are common.

Is there a basis to assume both are common? What is it?

If you play lots of bridge you will find out what people play. Some of my opponents/partners play it one way round, others play it the other way round.

(I'm not sure what else you think I could have meant )

[cherdano]

david_c, on Nov 22 2008, 04:15 AM, said:

Standard is to make sure you've discussed it with partner ...

Seriously, if partner suggests Ogust I always make sure to check which way round he plays it. Both methods are common.

While that is true, i think 3D as bad hand/good suit is more common, and if we claim long and loud enough that 3D=bad hand/good suit is the only standard then maybe it will be true at some point...

[peachy]

david_c, on Nov 22 2008, 07:42 AM, said:

peachy, on Nov 22 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

david_c, on Nov 22 2008, 05:15 AM, said:

Standard is to make sure you've discussed it with partner ...

Seriously, if partner suggests Ogust I always make sure to check which way round he plays it. Both methods are common.

Is there a basis to assume both are common? What is it?

If you play lots of bridge you will find out what people play. Some of my opponents/partners play it one way round, others play it the other way round.

(I'm not sure what else you think I could have meant )

My observation is that the second version is standard while if someone responds using the first version, he has usually made a "slip of the tongue/finger" bidding mistake and was not "using a different system".
I thought perhaps your basis for the assertion [that both versions are common] was that you have checked lots of refererence sources and found about half of them showing the first version. All references that I use/trust show the second one but of course I haven't checked them all, not even majority of them. My knowledge comes from 30+ years of play with maybe few hundred partners, both using Ogust and seeing others use it.

[rbforster]

It's simpler if you play the bad hands are cheaper since you don't have to modify what you play over 2♦ and 2♥ openers. Besides, at the point you have an unobstructed auction 2X-(P)-2N-(P)-Ogust rebid, you might as well leave the opponents out of it and let 3♣ be bad/bad so you can re-ask with 3♦ as the strongly invitational responding hand and make one more try for a major game. None of these fast arrival methods will facilitate that. Game before slam, right?

[glen]

For Bergen style weak twos I created a 2NT ask called August:

3♣: awful/bad (there was debate whether awful/awful should just pass 2NT)
3♦: sad/awful
3♥: bad/sad (early August had 3M taped for this)
3♠: sad/bad
3NT: not half bad

Even though most partners claimed to already know August (and claimed to know the Bergen too), the learning curve on this was awfully bad and results too sad