[Califdude]

You are playing in a pairs tournament with a player who classifies him/herself as advanced and you both bid SAYC as basic system. After play begins, you can no longer communicate with partner. Which of the following would you feel safe in bidding:

a. 2NT Jacoby forcing raise
b. Strong jump shift response (1D-p-2H)
3. Negative double
4. Open boderline hand 1st or 2nd seat by Rule of 22
5. Open in 3rd or 4th seat by Rule of 15
6. Last Train convention
7. Splinter Bid
8. D0P1
9. Michaels cue bid
10. Unusual NT
11. Grand slam force
12. Do we have stopper? (1D-1H-1S-P. then 2H asking for stopper)

As always, thanks for replies.

[P_Marlowe]

#3 yes
#4 rule of 22? Sounds down the middle
#5 in 4th seat, maybe, in 3rd seat the rule does not exist
#7 yes, but assume only fit and shortage
#9 ... yes

All other things I would not assume, and you dont need those
in a short tournament.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[effervesce]

Safe to assume

Jacoby 2NT (you did say SAYC didn't you??) The ones below are safe to assume given playing basically ANY system:
Neg X
Splinter
Michaels
Unusual NT
Grand slam force (though really, given the abundance of Roman Key Card this isn't as useful as it used to be as most hands you can just keycard)
Stopper ask

In general, a cuebid should almost certainly be treated as a stopper ask if you and partner have bid more than one suit, eg in your given auction 1D-1H-1S-p-2H. However, 1H-1S-2S is likely to be a cueraise.

4&5 are simply partner's style

[Aberlour10]

in my understanding of the basic system, I would say: #1, #3,#7,#9, #12

Robert

[hotShot]

Neg X
Splinter
Michaels
Unusual NT

In principle RKCB but since you dont know if it's 3041 or 4130 you better forget about it.

I'm sure hat the followup to Jacoby 2NT is not commonly agreed.

[gwnn]

rule of 22?

like you need 12 hcp for an opening with 5-5?

AQTxx
KQxxx
x
xx

auto pass?

don't listen to these rule of x's, or if you really really need one, go by rule of 20 with sensible downgrades. (Jx QJ Kxxxx KJxx)

[helene_t]

Never heard of rule of 22.

Last train and DOPI are not part of SAYC.

The rest should be ok. Of course you never know.

[neilkaz]

helene_t, on Nov 18 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

Never heard of rule of 22.

Last train and DOPI are not part of SAYC.

The rest should be ok. Of course you never know.

Rule of 22 is the Rule of 20 (HCP+two longest suits) + Quick Tricks =22 or more.

The rule of 15 doesn't apply for 3rd seat.

The unfamiliarity with my partner won't affect my opening 1 bids very much.

I most definately wouldn't expect Last Train. I'd have doubts about GSF esp. if playing RKC and also some doubts about DOPI.

[Mbodell]

The rule of 22 I'm familiar with is HCP+QT+2 longest >= 22. And that works out ok.

For me I'd say:

2NT Jacoby forcing raise
Michaels cue bid
Unusual NT
Negative double
Open boderline hand 1st or 2nd seat by Rule of 22
Open in 3rd or 4th seat by Rule of 15
Splinter Bid

are all good and should work.

Strong jump shift response (1D-p-2H)

should play as part of SA, but WJS are pretty popular too so I'd be a little nervous.

D0P1
Grand slam force

Are obscure and unlikely to come up. I'd be more concerned with what form of blackwood, what Q or K asks, and what not.

Do we have stopper? (1D-1H-1S-P. then 2H asking for stopper)

I wouldn't play it as being mainly a stopper ask.

Last Train convention

I doubt LTTC would be a convention you'd assume on by default, but one could bid it as a parlay where it might be on and might get to the right contract even if not correctly interpreted.

[Codo]

I am optimistic and try these:

a. 2NT Jacoby forcing raise
3. Negative double
4. Open boderline hand 1st or 2nd seat by Rule of 22
7. Splinter Bid
8. D0P1
9. Michaels cue bid
10. Unusual NT
12. Do we have stopper? (1D-1H-1S-P. then 2H asking for stopper)

[maggieb]

If we agreed SAYC, and partner really does know how to play SAYC, then I will play all the agreements listed in SAYC. Unfortunately, I think the number of people online claiming to play SAYC who actually follow all the SAYC guidelines is basically zero.

I would feel relatively confident that we play:
Stayman and Transfers
Michaels Cuebid/Unusual 2NT
Negative Doubles (in SAYC this is through 2♠, but most will play it higher)
Fourth Suit Forcing (to Game)
New Minor Forcing
Splinters

I would assume but not with 100% certainty that:
Our jump shifts are strong, but in competition weak
3014 Keycard (unless specifically 1430)
Jacoby 2NT
Support Doubles (through 2♥)

If I sat down with a (real) expert, I would assume a couple additional things.

[han]

I always discuss d0p1, first thing on my list.

[vuroth]

maggieb, on Nov 19 2008, 06:17 AM, said:

If we agreed SAYC, and partner really does know how to play SAYC, then I will play all the agreements listed in SAYC. Unfortunately, I think the number of people online claiming to play SAYC who actually follow all the SAYC guidelines is basically zero.

Probably.

My biggest problem is this:

1♦ (p) 2NT

I've yet to see anyone who bids this according to the SAYC guideline.

[matmat]

han, on Nov 19 2008, 10:30 AM, said:

I always discuss d0p1, first thing on my list.

now wonder we don't play well together... you never asked me about that convention.

[han]

I think we do fine together Mat, just don't bid NT.

[keylime]

I think Last Train is a big no-no - I'd even go so far to rule out RKCB out of fear of a messup.

Additionally, GSF is not so good.

KISS is the way to go.

[ArcLight]

SAYC means differnet things to different people (i.e. its not as well known as you would think)

>11. Grand slam force
I would not be surprised if this gets confused with Pick a Slam.

>8. D0P1
Without discussion you are playing with fire.

>b. Strong jump shift response (1D-p-2H)
probably the majority use Weak Jump shifts, so I would be scared to use SJS without discussion.

>12. Do we have stopper? (1D-1H-1S-P. then 2H asking for stopper)
Is it a stopper ask, or showing a big hand? Or both? Since pard has bid a major, not a minor. Maybe you have 3 card spade support? I wouldn't want to assume this.


You don't have Blackwood listed. Is it regular? 0314? 1430?


>6. Last Train convention
I would never assume this.


In general I am extremely wary of conventions with pick up pards, even "advanced" ones. One "advanced" pard didnt play negative doubles
Probably a big clue is if some lists in their profile any of the following:
- stayman
- 2 Clubs strong
- transfers

they are not advanced

[Infidel]

I am at a loss why everyone says it is "safe to assume splinters," when they are explicitly omitted from the Yellow Card. (a big reason I don't like to play SAYC).

[barmar]

I don't play with online pickups much these days, but back when I did I often found that people who claimed to play SAYC didn't realize that Jacoby 2NT was included. I put something like "SAYC, including Jac2N" in my profile to try to avoid calamities.

While you can avoid jumping to 2NT yourself, you still have the problem of deciphering it when partner bids 2NT over your major opening. You might as well assume it's Jacoby; you may lose the board, but you should at least win the post mortem since you have the text of the Yellow Card on your side.

[vuroth]

Infidel, on Nov 19 2008, 09:47 PM, said:

I am at a loss why everyone says it is "safe to assume splinters," when they are explicitly omitted from the Yellow Card. (a big reason I don't like to play SAYC).

It's probably easier one way than the other. If partner doesn't play splinters, will he really respond 4♦ to your 1♠ bid? Probably not.

Of course, if you pull a splinter on a pickup partner, they may tank then pass or something. Still, if they've even heart of it, I'll bet they're more likely to interpret a splinter bid as such than as natural.

That's probably one advantage that splinters have over most other conventions, for the purposes of this discussion.