[1eyedjack]

It seems that North could have had a whole extra trick (when complaints about the double would be much reduced) and the contract would still have made but without the overtrick. Whatever the merits or not of the double I would still have pulled it with South.

[cherdano]

1eyedjack, on Nov 13 2008, 12:30 AM, said:

655321, on Nov 12 2008, 10:49 PM, said:

Agree with 2♠. Also agree that double (takeout) with a singleton when partner has opened 1NT is not great because partner will happily pass with many (most) 4 card holdings in their suit.

Not my partner. It is true that opener might feel "fixed" by the double. In such cases he might be inclined to pass, particularly if it is a minor suit so they are not in game (although that would stilll be a zero at MP if it makes). But in my partnerships (as with the OP) double does not promise a game try, only willingness to compete, and it will regularly have a singleton (indeed will rarely have more than 2 in their suit). On the Garozzo principle I share the concerns of others when doubling on a void, but doubler willl pretty reliably hold either singleton or doubleton. Opener will stretch to find a bid rather than stretch to find an excuse to pass, holding a poorly placed 4 card trump holding.

And yes, he will sometimes pull it when it would have been right to pass. It is a numbers game.

For me, swap the minors and over 2C it is a clear double. As it stood I am ambivalent but tend toward 2S. If partner has 5 hearts and doubleton Spade I will feel sick, but then I often feel sick.

Takeout doubles opposite a NT opener are a different beast than takeout doubles in other situations. When you have a singleton, you almost always have a 5-card suit, which means you know a playable strain. So you can just bid it. Which means you can afford to have your takeout double promise a doubleton, which means opener can (happily!) penalty pass with 4 in their suit much more often, and you get good +200/+500 scores much more often.
Of course when I have a 4414 hand with 6 hcp I wish double would mean that, but it's a numbers game.

[1eyedjack]

cherdano, on Nov 13 2008, 09:48 AM, said:

1eyedjack, on Nov 13 2008, 12:30 AM, said:

655321, on Nov 12 2008, 10:49 PM, said:

Agree with 2♠. Also agree that double (takeout) with a singleton when partner has opened 1NT is not great because partner will happily pass with many (most) 4 card holdings in their suit.

Not my partner. It is true that opener might feel "fixed" by the double. In such cases he might be inclined to pass, particularly if it is a minor suit so they are not in game (although that would stilll be a zero at MP if it makes). But in my partnerships (as with the OP) double does not promise a game try, only willingness to compete, and it will regularly have a singleton (indeed will rarely have more than 2 in their suit). On the Garozzo principle I share the concerns of others when doubling on a void, but doubler willl pretty reliably hold either singleton or doubleton. Opener will stretch to find a bid rather than stretch to find an excuse to pass, holding a poorly placed 4 card trump holding.

And yes, he will sometimes pull it when it would have been right to pass. It is a numbers game.

For me, swap the minors and over 2C it is a clear double. As it stood I am ambivalent but tend toward 2S. If partner has 5 hearts and doubleton Spade I will feel sick, but then I often feel sick.

Takeout doubles opposite a NT opener are a different beast than takeout doubles in other situations. When you have a singleton, you almost always have a 5-card suit, which means you know a playable strain. So you can just bid it. Which means you can afford to have your takeout double promise a doubleton, which means opener can (happily!) penalty pass with 4 in their suit much more often, and you get good +200/+500 scores much more often.
Of course when I have a 4414 hand with 6 hcp I wish double would mean that, but it's a numbers game.

You have a 4-3-1-5 shape 6-8 point hand (perhaps even 9?) and your partner opens 1NT (15-17), RHO overcalls 2D (nat). Do you prefer bidding your "safe" 5 card club suit, or would you prefer a takeout double?

[Codo]

han, on Nov 13 2008, 05:58 AM, said:

Let me repeat that I think 2S is better than double when playing TO doubles. I don't like to double with a stiff in their suit and marginal values because I want partner to convert frequently. Since we have 5 spades here I don't need to.

Han's right.