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To bid or not to bid?

Poll: high level decision (20 member(s) have cast votes)

high level decision

  1. pass (4 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  2. double (3 votes [15.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.00%

  3. 5h (13 votes [65.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 65.00%

  4. other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   stjk 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 09:40

Team match (IMP), Vul vs nonVul, you hold:

xx KQxx J9xxx Ax

LHO Pard RHO you
1S 2H 4S ?
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 09:46

double then pass 5♦, bid 5♥ over 5♣ or 4NT.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 09:51

OK they got us. 5H for me, double seems wrong with KQxx support.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#4 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 09:57

DBL or 5H....I will probably bid 5H, but I'm not confident that this is best.
(DBL would be takeout, but will often be passed at this level)
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#5 User is offline   stjk 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 09:59

I am also interested to know what you think the double mean
at this situation? Pen oriented? T/O oriented? or in between (
do somthing based on your own hand)?

Thanks,
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#6 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 10:19

You just have to bid on these hands. 5♥.

The bidding isn't over by the way.
"Phil" on BBO
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#7 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 10:21

stjk, on Nov 6 2008, 07:59 AM, said:

I am also interested to know what you think the double mean
at this situation? Pen oriented? T/O oriented? or in between (
do somthing based on your own hand)?

Thanks,

Double is essentially 'cards'. Move some stuff around I would x.
"Phil" on BBO
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#8 User is offline   marcD 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 10:36

Clearly depends on your definition of DBL. If it means Do Something Intelligent then dbl is a standout (partner is expected to pull with spade shortage). If you do not have this agreement then I guess 5♥ but your are essentially bidding partner's hand /assumed shortage (opponents could well have only 9 trumps)
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#9 User is offline   pirate22 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 10:42

bid 5 Hearts--- agree with Clayton bidding will die or may proceed
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#10 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 12:55

Yeah, agree with clayton on that as well.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#11 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 12:56

I disagree with that. The bidding may also vaporize into the ether. It also may be taken over by the government as part of the $700 billion bailout package. Many possibilities remain.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#12 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 12:59

You really did quit with the logic.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#13 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 12:59

Seems like an automatic 5♥ call.

How can you ignore the KQxx of hearts?
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#14 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 13:22

ArtK78, on Nov 6 2008, 06:59 PM, said:

Seems like an automatic 5♥ call.

How can you ignore the KQxx of hearts?

Agree.

Double can be thought of as an unusual kind of transfer - it transfers the responsibility for making a bad 5-level decision to your partner.

Given that he will never expect you to Double with a hand like this, this transfer rates to be accepted a significant % of the time. At least you then can try to blame your partner for the bad decision that your Double will have induced him to make...

You KQxx of hearts means you have to take responsibility for the 5-level decision yourself. If your partner blames you in the not unlikely event that this obvious bid turns out to work badly, you can then consider giving him a taste of his own medicine and start doubling with such hands in the future.

Fred Gitelman
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#15 User is online   mr1303 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 14:10

I'm not convinced by double either, but I think pass deserves a mention. This hand isn't much better than a solid raise to the 3 level, and whilst partner should have a good hand at this vulnerability, perhaps we're expecting too much of him?
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#16 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 14:14

mr1303, on Nov 6 2008, 09:10 PM, said:

I'm not convinced by double either, but I think pass deserves a mention. This hand isn't much better than a solid raise to the 3 level, and whilst partner should have a good hand at this vulnerability, perhaps we're expecting too much of him?

Nah, this is easily worth forcing to game on if RHO had passed or bid 2S.

5H in sleep, doesn't have to be right but we'll defend 4S far too often if we do anything else.
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#17 User is offline   stjk 

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Posted 2008-November-07, 13:24

Thanks for all the replys.

Pard's hand is :

Qx Axxxxx Ax Kxx

vs:

xx KQxx J9xxx Ax

So the results is 4S-2 on good Def (C ruff), 5H -1.

Our teammates didn't open 1S with:

AKTxx Jx xx QJxx

and oppo got to play 4H make, we might cut the
loss if DBL 4S instead of bid 5H.

Thanks,
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