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I do not accept the premise that it is possible to have a takeout double at the 4 level when one could not act over a one-bid.
Therefore, the meaning of the double of 4♥ is PENALTIES.
FrancesHinden is right. The only rational explanation for this bidding is that LHO psyched a 1♥ opening and partner has 4♥ beaten in his own hand.
It's bridge, Jim, but not as we know it.
#21
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Posted 2008-November-07, 16:24
#22
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Posted 2008-November-07, 17:03
FrancesHinden, on Nov 7 2008, 01:31 AM, said:
It's standard to play it as penalties.
Quote
This auction came up once in the BW MSC. About 2/3 of the panel learnedly bid some suit or other, explaining that partner had a void in their suit, and was showing a 4045 8-count or whatever
"Phil" on BBO
#23
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Posted 2008-November-07, 18:51
Given the lunacy to play this as a take-out double, I'm very far from convinced that it should show a 40(54) type. This distribution has the lowest possible playing strength of all the hands that are void of hearts.
If we are puritanical about our 1♠ overcalls, requiring a suit for the bid and all that sort of silly stuff, then this delayed double really should show 5 spades. Is 4♠ the winning bid? Or 4NT? (partner is 5062)
How do you like my game?
Very interesting sir, indeed, but personally I prefer bridge.
If we are puritanical about our 1♠ overcalls, requiring a suit for the bid and all that sort of silly stuff, then this delayed double really should show 5 spades. Is 4♠ the winning bid? Or 4NT? (partner is 5062)
How do you like my game?
Very interesting sir, indeed, but personally I prefer bridge.
Michael Askgaard
#24
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Posted 2008-November-07, 20:34
Agree with the above post bost. I would say this is penalty.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#25
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Posted 2008-November-07, 21:15
MFA, on Nov 7 2008, 04:51 PM, said:
If we are puritanical about our 1♠ overcalls, requiring a suit for the bid and all that sort of silly stuff, then this delayed double really should show 5 spades. Is 4♠ the winning bid? Or 4NT? (partner is 5062)
Actually, a 4♠ call should show a weak two suiter, I think.
"Phil" on BBO
#26
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2008-November-08, 04:37
If I were designing methods for delayed action of this sort, I'd play 4♠ as one specific two-suiter and double as the other specific two-suiter.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#27
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Posted 2008-November-08, 05:57
pclayton, on Nov 7 2008, 10:15 PM, said:
MFA, on Nov 7 2008, 04:51 PM, said:
If we are puritanical about our 1♠ overcalls, requiring a suit for the bid and all that sort of silly stuff, then this delayed double really should show 5 spades. Is 4♠ the winning bid? Or 4NT? (partner is 5062)
Actually, a 4♠ call should show a weak two suiter, I think.
Yes, it should probably show that. But I would be very eager to leave 4♥X as an option. 590<<1100, you know
.
Michael Askgaard
#28
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Posted 2008-November-08, 10:03
thanks but needless to say i was not asking what everybody thought was standard i was asking what was best
#29
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Posted 2008-November-08, 11:00
Two points:
--Is it just barely possible that sometimes pard will pass opposite the 4-0-5-4 hand double sometimes? Of course the hearts will be under Opener, but dummy should have limited entries too.
---Also, if the hand over the opener has a heart stack, isn't it possible that 4th seat finds a double with a 4054 or similar?
Personally, I would rather play the double as 2-way (figure it out) than penalty. These seem to work out better in practice than they do on paper.
--Is it just barely possible that sometimes pard will pass opposite the 4-0-5-4 hand double sometimes? Of course the hearts will be under Opener, but dummy should have limited entries too.
---Also, if the hand over the opener has a heart stack, isn't it possible that 4th seat finds a double with a 4054 or similar?
Personally, I would rather play the double as 2-way (figure it out) than penalty. These seem to work out better in practice than they do on paper.
"Phil" on BBO