[sceptic]

I have a theory about spending your way out of a bad recession or depression, I think all the great Civilizations tried this, public money and great public projects.

1/. The Egyptians, where are they now (yes the Pyramids lasted but the Civilization never lasted as a great super power), probably a direct consequence of over borrowing and high taxation.

2/. The Chinese, after thousands of years they are just getting back on thier feet after building the Great Wall. Apparently by time they finished it, it left them Bankrupt and just like most public projects, was no use what so ever.

3/. THe Myans, They built the pre-Hispanic City of Chichen-Itza, again, they went bankrupt before, they could put the solar panels on the pyramids, as a natural source of energy, at least these were a forward thinking people.

America and the rest of the world, should concentrate on getting their debt mountains down and actually living within their means, both financially and with respect to out Natural resources, which are not limitless, even if this means a lowering of everyones standard of living,

If you were to think "outside the box" How do you think this will go down in the History books and how do you see the World in 100 years time? Whos in Charge? and what is the Economic and Social motivators of the future?

[RichMor]

2008 was the year when rational people stopped trying to plan for the future by examining ancient civilizations.

It worked

[TylerE]

There is so much wrong with the OP (e.g., well, everything), I'm not even going to bother deconstructing it...

[Al_U_Card]

"Images and writings of the time suggest that there was a conflict between those that were committed to activity and those that were committed to inactivity.

As has been seen so many times in the past, the vast majority gets steered by the tiny minority that wins their hearts and minds (and pocketbooks).

The lead-in seems to be an insular, US against the world mentality, that became outmoded by the climatic changes that had recently commenced in the polar regions.

It is easy for us now, sitting on our beach chairs in Omaha (that inland sea sure moderates the annual temperature swings that used to be prevalent in this part of our countries) to imagine that the people of those times must have known what was going on.

Silly of us, isnt it?" ... Encyclopedia universalis

[Aberlour10]

I would probably wonder which strange conventions bridge players used in the year 2008

[kenberg]

I am so pleased at hearing the United States being described as a great civilization that I just want to bask in that for a while.

OK, I am done basking.


This will be seen as the year that we in the United States began a deep reassessment of our place in the world.

[luke warm]

kenberg, on Oct 29 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

I am so pleased at hearing the United States being described as a great civilization that I just want to bask in that for a while.

OK, I am done basking.


This will be seen as the year that we in the United States began a deep reassessment of our place in the world.

i have a feeling you are right

[cherdano]

luke warm, on Oct 29 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

kenberg, on Oct 29 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

I am so pleased at hearing the United States being described as a great civilization that I just want to bask in that for a while.

OK, I am done basking.


This will be seen as the year that we in the United States began a deep reassessment of our place in the world.

i have a feeling you are right

Or was it the world reconsidering...

[pigpenz]

nothing yet ask me on jan 1, 2009

[helene_t]

I don't think 2008 will get a prominent role in history books. There will be some footnotes here and there about Japan winning the Seniors' event at the WMSG, and the stock markets having a temporary setback. And oh yes G.W.'s second term ended but few books will bother to mention who succeded him.

[luke warm]

cherdano, on Oct 29 2008, 07:57 PM, said:

luke warm, on Oct 29 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

kenberg, on Oct 29 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

I am so pleased at hearing the United States being described as a great civilization that I just want to bask in that for a while.

OK, I am done basking.


This will be seen as the year that we in the United States began a deep reassessment of our place in the world.

i have a feeling you are right

Or was it the world reconsidering...

i don't worry too much about what the world thinks

[helene_t]

Me neither, I don't worry about what planets, rocks, plants, countries and imaginary entities think. I think, therefore I must be an individual.

[matmat]

luke warm, on Oct 30 2008, 05:06 AM, said:

cherdano, on Oct 29 2008, 07:57 PM, said:

luke warm, on Oct 29 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

kenberg, on Oct 29 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

I am so pleased at hearing the United States being described as a great civilization that I just want to bask in that for a while.

OK, I am done basking.


This will be seen as the year that we in the United States began a deep reassessment of our place in the world.

i have a feeling you are right

Or was it the world reconsidering...

i don't worry too much about what the world thinks

That is the American problem, in a nutshell.

[Lobowolf]

luke warm, on Oct 30 2008, 05:06 AM, said:

cherdano, on Oct 29 2008, 07:57 PM, said:

luke warm, on Oct 29 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

kenberg, on Oct 29 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

I am so pleased at hearing the United States being described as a great civilization that I just want to bask in that for a while.

OK, I am done basking.


This will be seen as the year that we in the United States began a deep reassessment of our place in the world.

i have a feeling you are right

Or was it the world reconsidering...

i don't worry too much about what the world thinks

Should be a chapter in "Everything I needed to know, I learned in kindergarten." I vaguely remember being taught that just because Billy and Johnny did things a certain way, that wasn't supposed to have a bearing on how I did things. I was supposed to use intelligence and moral judgment to decide what was right, and to do that and not be dissuaded by my friends who disagreed.

Apparently now it's much more important what the friends and neighbors think.

[matmat]

Lobowolf, on Oct 30 2008, 10:54 AM, said:

I was supposed to use intelligence and moral judgment to decide what was right, and to do that and not be dissuaded by my friends who disagreed.

Apparently now it's much more important what the friends and neighbors think.

sure. assuming you are capable of using intelligence and your moral judgement isn't skewed by blindly followed beliefs.

[TimG]

Lobowolf, on Oct 30 2008, 10:54 AM, said:

Should be a chapter in "Everything I needed to know, I learned in kindergarten." I vaguely remember being taught that just because Billy and Johnny did things a certain way, that wasn't supposed to have a bearing on how I did things. I was supposed to use intelligence and moral judgment to decide what was right, and to do that and not be dissuaded by my friends who disagreed.

Apparently now it's much more important what the friends and neighbors think.

When your intelligence and moral judgment fail, it might be a good thing to worry about what the rest of the world thinks and take your lead from them.

[kenberg]

Lobowolf, on Oct 30 2008, 10:54 AM, said:

luke warm, on Oct 30 2008, 05:06 AM, said:

cherdano, on Oct 29 2008, 07:57 PM, said:

luke warm, on Oct 29 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

kenberg, on Oct 29 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

I am so pleased at hearing the United States being described as a great civilization that I just want to bask in that for a while.

OK, I am done basking.


This will be seen as the year that we in the United States began a deep reassessment of our place in the world.

i have a feeling you are right

Or was it the world reconsidering...

i don't worry too much about what the world thinks

Should be a chapter in "Everything I needed to know, I learned in kindergarten." I vaguely remember being taught that just because Billy and Johnny did things a certain way, that wasn't supposed to have a bearing on how I did things. I was supposed to use intelligence and moral judgment to decide what was right, and to do that and not be dissuaded by my friends who disagreed.

Apparently now it's much more important what the friends and neighbors think.

I had not actually intended a confrontational stance. An historical example. In 1966 France, under DeGaulle, withdrew French forces from NATO. This could be seen as a change in the USA role as well as the French r role in the world (not instigated by us, but a change). Directly after WWII the US became, by default, a guarantor of independence for many countries. By 1966 the situation had changed and this led to reassessment. Again, after the change of management in Poland, Hungary, and "Eastern Europe" in general, there was obviously further change. The time is ripe, I think, for a rather substantial review of our current purposes.

In a very complex world, there are still two competing ideas:

I. It's been half a century or so since I read Machiavelli, but the line I recall goes something like: "A Prince who tries in every way to be good will meet his ruin among the great many who are not good".


II. The competing view, not from anyone in particular: What's the point of all this wealth and power if we do not accomplish something worthwhile. Life cannot be simply about flat screen tvs.


Harry Lime versus Holly Martins. (See The Third Man if you don't recognize the names.)

Currently I am not so sure that we are either doing such a great job of watching out for ourselves or of wisely using our power and wealth to make a better world. So some thinking is in order.

[cherdano]

Lobowolf, on Oct 30 2008, 09:54 AM, said:

luke warm, on Oct 30 2008, 05:06 AM, said:

cherdano, on Oct 29 2008, 07:57 PM, said:

luke warm, on Oct 29 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

kenberg, on Oct 29 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

I am so pleased at hearing the United States being described as a great civilization that I just want to bask in that for a while.

OK, I am done basking.


This will be seen as the year that we in the United States began a deep reassessment of our place in the world.

i have a feeling you are right

Or was it the world reconsidering...

i don't worry too much about what the world thinks

Should be a chapter in "Everything I needed to know, I learned in kindergarten." I vaguely remember being taught that just because Billy and Johnny did things a certain way, that wasn't supposed to have a bearing on how I did things. I was supposed to use intelligence and moral judgment to decide what was right, and to do that and not be dissuaded by my friends who disagreed.

Apparently now it's much more important what the friends and neighbors think.

I was only alluding to the fact that the US influence in the world is diminishing. Apparently you think that is a good thing. I don't think I agree, but at least most people on earth will agree with you. But then, you don't care about that...

[luke warm]

matmat, on Oct 30 2008, 10:57 AM, said:

Lobowolf, on Oct 30 2008, 10:54 AM, said:

I was supposed to use intelligence and moral judgment to decide what was right, and to do that and not be dissuaded by my friends who disagreed.

Apparently now it's much more important what the friends and neighbors think.

sure. assuming you are capable of using intelligence and your moral judgement isn't skewed by blindly followed beliefs.

and i suppose those whose thought processes and moral judgments more closely follow yours are the intelligent ones?

[matmat]

luke warm, on Oct 30 2008, 07:16 PM, said:

and i suppose those whose thought processes and moral judgments more closely follow yours are the intelligent ones?

not necessarily, but if you have leaders who did poorly in school, with some suspicion that they were only allowed in because they were legacies; if it is evident from their speech and manners that they have little going on upstairs, and their tact is sorely lacking; if they surround themselves with blood-thirsty advisers -- are you surprised that the country gets run into the ground and its reputation is dragged through the mud? would it not be wise in this situation to take some cues from abroad?

as for moral judgments, ignoring the major US hot-topics (gay marriage, abortion, gun-control etc). wouldn't you consider imprisoning thousands of people without trial and without recourse to be immoral? Wouldn't you think that a country that is doing so should be especially reprimanded, viewed poorly and encouraged to change its ways when it brands everyone else who does it a terrorist?