[mr1303]

Scoring: IMP

---

Auction as follows:

P 1S
4C 4NT
5H 6S

The club lead meant 1 off (any other lead would let it make).

Was this unlucky or poorly judged?

[rogerclee]

Very poorly judged by south, a stiff opposite a stiff is a bad thing.

Also, the diamonds can never go away on the hearts. Even if north has 5 spades and 1 club he has 7 red cards which means there will always be a diamond loser if north doesn't have the DK. Thus north needs AK K to begin with, and even then you are worse than a finesse unless north has a doubleton heart also (5251 or 4261). For most people I think AKxx xx Kxxxxx x and AKxxx xx Kxxxx x is an opening bid so that hand is not possible.

All that means north needs a club void for slam to ever be good. It is very unlikely given your stiff and the opponents silence, but at the very most south should cuebid 4D and let north move if he wants. I think even that is an overbid though as north will get very excited with a hand like AJxx xxx KQxxx x opposite a diamond cue and might drive to the 5 level when it's poor. It is not worth the risk.

[han]

Poor, the club shortage is bad news. A passed hand partner likely won't have enough to cover your losers in trumps and the red suits. If partner doesn't have the diamond king then the best you can hope for is slam on a finesse (even if partner has 5 trumps and the heart queen you won't be able to pitch enough diamonds!). So for slam to be clearly worthwhile you need partner to have AK of trumps and the diamond king, plus not three small hearts. It's possible that partner has all this but it is not likely and blackwood certainly isn't the right way to find out.

I think south didn't picture possible hands that partner could have.

[jdonn]

That a singleton is not good opposite a splinter is something I only learned through experience. For some reason if it hasn't come up for you and then it does, it somehow feels like a good thing, but time after time it's not. I do think south is worth a cuebid though, although it's pretty close to not enough.

[kenrexford]

jdonn, on Oct 24 2008, 01:24 PM, said:

That a singleton is not good opposite a splinter is something I only learned through experience. For some reason if it hasn't come up for you and then it does, it somehow feels like a good thing, but time after time it's not. I do think south is worth a cuebid though, although it's pretty close to not enough.

Yeah, this is actually really easy. If you cuebid 4♥, partner either will or will not have the diamond King. If he has it, then you are probably safe at the five-level.

Partner could have the ideal hand (spade Ace-King, diamond King, not xxx in hearts, but then a finesse might work), but we might be OK oppoiste an unusual hand, like AJ10 in spades, diamond King, heart Queen, where we are 50-50.

[cherdano]

kenrexford, on Oct 24 2008, 04:16 PM, said:

jdonn, on Oct 24 2008, 01:24 PM, said:

That a singleton is not good opposite a splinter is something I only learned through experience. For some reason if it hasn't come up for you and then it does, it somehow feels like a good thing, but time after time it's not. I do think south is worth a cuebid though, although it's pretty close to not enough.

Yeah, this is actually really easy. If you cuebid 4♥, partner either will or will not have the diamond King. If he has it, then you are probably safe at the five-level.

Kxxx Qxx KQxxx x. But yeah, if you don't cuebid you might miss a 50-50 slam.

[jdonn]

cherdano, on Oct 24 2008, 06:59 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Oct 24 2008, 04:16 PM, said:

jdonn, on Oct 24 2008, 01:24 PM, said:

That a singleton is not good opposite a splinter is something I only learned through experience. For some reason if it hasn't come up for you and then it does, it somehow feels like a good thing, but time after time it's not. I do think south is worth a cuebid though, although it's pretty close to not enough.

Yeah, this is actually really easy. If you cuebid 4♥, partner either will or will not have the diamond King. If he has it, then you are probably safe at the five-level.

Kxxx Qxx KQxxx x. But yeah, if you don't cuebid you might miss a 50-50 slam.

I didn't notice partner is a passed hand. I don't think I cuebid in that case. It's pretty tough to come up with slams that are better than a finesse. I certainly cuebid opposite an unpassed hand, then we can easily have slam.

[kenrexford]

cherdano, on Oct 24 2008, 06:59 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Oct 24 2008, 04:16 PM, said:

jdonn, on Oct 24 2008, 01:24 PM, said:

That a singleton is not good opposite a splinter is something I only learned through experience. For some reason if it hasn't come up for you and then it does, it somehow feels like a good thing, but time after time it's not. I do think south is worth a cuebid though, although it's pretty close to not enough.

Yeah, this is actually really easy. If you cuebid 4♥, partner either will or will not have the diamond King. If he has it, then you are probably safe at the five-level.

Kxxx Qxx KQxxx x. But yeah, if you don't cuebid you might miss a 50-50 slam.

I'm not so sure that hand is good enough to accept. For that matter, I'm not sure that hand is good enough to bid 4♣.

For that matter, the actual hand is a tad light for what I would expect. Actually, quite a bit light. P-1♠-4♣ is actually quite sick with the actual hand. It seems vastly more reasonable to bid drury (if in play, hopefully) and then to splinter if talked into it.

The hand for the immediate splinter, forcing game opposite a possible junker, should look somewhat different, IMO. I'd suggest that ♠Axxxx ♥Qx ♦Kxxxx ♣x is vastly more reasonable, or perhaps ♠AKxxx ♥Qx ♦xxxxx ♣x. In fact, I usually have the understanding (seems obvious, but...) that a splinter here must promise some wild-ass distributional hand just shy of opening.

I suppose that the hand I want, ♠AKxxx ♥xx ♦Kxxxx ♣x, is one where I would usually open 1♠. So, I think passing is right, in the end. Give me the King of spades instead, and I'll cue. Sure, partner might have ♠AK432 ♥32 ♦K5432 ♣2, but I think he will move too often with the two earlier examples, which is bad.

Now I don't know. What the heck should 4♦ or 4♥ by me be seeking? If we assume that a splinter should be based on some sort of non-COV 5521 hand, then I suppose we will expect something like five trumps with one of the top three honors, a five-card side suit with one of the top three honors, and a doubleton with an honor, with probably one of these three honors being just a Queen, but not two. We also can probably expect that one of the three honors could float to the trump suit. So, starting suits in order of trumps-side-frag-stiff (not rank), we'd expect...

Hxxxx-Hxxxx-Qx-x
Hxxxx-Qxxxx-Hx-x
Qxxxx-Hxxxx-Hx-x
HQxxx-Hxxxx-xx-x
HQxxx-xxxxx-Hx-x
HHxxx-Qxxxx-xx-x OR
HHxxx-xxxxx-Qx-x

It seems that I can re-order these from strongest-to-weakest as to potential, as to the minimum number of covers needed from partner...

Hxxxx-Qxxxx-Hx-x
HHxxx-Qxxxx-xx-x
Qxxxx-Hxxxx-Hx-x
HQxxx-Hxxxx-xx-x
HHxxx-xxxxx-Qx-x
Hxxxx-Hxxxx-Qx-x
HQxxx-xxxxx-Hx-x

Maybe these could be tweaked a bit.

In any event, it seems like the best use of the cue is to perhaps inquire as to whether a specific Queen is or is not an external cover. Or, put another way, a "supportive-empathetic" cue, showing interest in "this suit" if the same is partner's side suit.

The hand sought for the slam is HHxxx-Hxxxx-xx-x, which is too big unless a downgraded AKxxx-Kxxxx-xx-x. But, it perhaps most closely resembles HHxxx-Qxxxx-xx-x. This would suggest, strangely, making a 4♦ cue, but only if is there is some way to unwind this puppy, which I cannot figure. I mean, 4♥ by Responder should show something (maybe LTTC), but that sounds like perhaps indicating that one of his covers is the dubious trump Queen or the dubious heart Queen. I cannot imagine that 4♥ would clarify, under this thinking, that Responder has the "dubious diamond Queen."

If there were no allowed "dubious queens," then the issue would be easily solved. Responder would be forced into one specific hand (because of our holdings), namely AKxxx-Kxxxx-xx-x. In that event, the auction would be simple -- P-1♠-4♣-6♠. The auction would be the same if, perhaps, the only "dubious queen" was allowed in trumps.

Well, now that I have fully explored the idea of supportive-empathetic cues and the dubiosity of queendom, I think I'll retire. LOL

[kenrexford]

OK, I made it through only one cigarette, and I cannot stand it.

It seems like the splinter generally takes up a lot of space, because the second suit cannot always be shown. So, assuming a late 1♠ opening...

4♥ = heart splinter, diamond suit, no dubious queens.
4♦ = diamond splinter, heart suit, may or may not have dubious queen. 4♥ invites slam if no dubious queen.
4♣ = club splinter. 4♦ empathizes a diamond suit; 4♥ confirms but shows dubious Queen. 4♥ empathizes a heart suit; if Responder has hearts, he cannot have any dubious queens.
3NT = catch-all:

3NT will show (1) heart splinter with a club suit, (2) heart splinter with diamond suit but a dubious queen, or (3) club splinter with hearts but dubious queen. Opener can bid 4♣ is he empathizes clubs, allowing Responder to hesitantly accept by bidding 4♦ with a dubious Queen in diamonds or 4♥ with a dubious trump Queen. Opener could instead bid 4♦ or 4♥ to empathize that suit (interest in the attached stiff per definition) and values sufficient to make despite dubious queens. After 4♦ (Opener empathizes diamond suit with a heart splinter), 4♥ calrifies that the dubious Queen is in clubs.

After a 1♥ opening, the same basic idea is used, except that we bump down the steps, starting with 3♠. To make this easier to remember, we transfer to the shortness, with a "transfer" to hearts (4♦) for the other-major (♠) splinter, and a "transfer" to 3NT as the catch-all. The steps after the 3♠ "transfer" are tied, as well, to the same order described for 1♠ openings.

This, of course, does not catch voids. But, I suppose you could include some sort of void-showing sequence into 2NT or into drury auctions.

[kenrexford]

Justin types gibberish when he's drinking, too.

[han]

Yeah but not about bridge usually. Did you really need all that space to come to the conclusion that a good slam is very unlikely but if you want to push for it and bid 4D, partner will certainly go berserk if he actually has the magical hand?

[mr1303]

For those who have suggested that partner could cue-bid something rather than bid Blackwood, our style in this situation (as per previous posts of mine) is that we would show a control if we had one, and rebid the bid suit if we did not.

E.g. 1S 4C 4D

Responder will ALWAYS bid 4S no matter what his hand is (assuming the possibility of 2 singletons can be eliminated) as he is missing AK of hearts.

[han]

What does he do with AKxxx xx Kxxxx x if you bid 4H?