[shanbari]

this hand is from one of my firend, here is his question.

imps both white,

opps play 2/1 and better minor. RHO opened 1D, you are holding following hand,

S: A Q J 3
H: 10 9 8
D: K J 8 5
C: J 3


what do you bid ?

[655321]

1♠

[Ant590]

I would pass.

[rogerclee]

I don't think it is clear to pass or bid 1♠, but I would bid 1♠. If it is your style to seldom overcall with 4 cards, then I wouldn't break that style in order to bid with this hand.

In general, there are a couple of reasons you would want to overcall with four cards:

1) Because you have a strong suit, and you want partner to lead it.
2) To take up space in your opponents' auction.
3) Your hand is too strong to pass and both 1NT and double are unattractive.

The main reason not to overcall with four cards is that generally the hand will have less playing strength in the suit than advertised and will have much more defense (being shorter in the suit that you are strong in is good for your defensive prospects). If partner raises (or preempts) and you end up declaring spades, it is very possible that you will be too high.

[Codo]

This is still the B/I discussion, so 4 card overcalls may be a little stretch.

But whenever you feel ready to play 4/3 fits and to make life more difficult for your opponents, this is the typical hand for a 1 Spade bid: Really good spades and good cards in their suit, but no other good bid avaiable.

[pclayton]

1♠ and I think its clear. We have an opening hand, diamonds behind the bidder and suit with great texture.

[jdonn]

I would always pass. If you continue to overcall four card suits on balanced hands then you prevent partner from raising you aggressively, unless you simply like bad scores.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

you can choose between Pass and 1S, I would go with 1S,
but Pass is fine as well.

Overcalling a 4 card suit is ok, as long as the suit quality is
fine, a test is the Suit Quality Test.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Point_count

If the level you get from the test is greater or equal 7, than
the suit qualifies for an overcall, even if you have only a 4
carder.

For the given hand you get 7 (4 cards, 3 honors), hence the
suit quality is fine according to the test.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[han]

I would overcall if my partner has passed, obviously.

Else I don't have a strong opinion.

[vuroth]

Not an expert, but definitely more comfortable with pass.

Certainly something I'd want to discuss with partner at some point, though.

[bb79]

There once was a player from Beirut
Who thought he would try to be cute.
.. He overcalled a spade
.. And died as he played.
The postmortem: a four-card suit.


From Richard Pavlicek's site

[effervesce]

1♠. Sure, partner may raise you too much sometimes- but in my experience the good things that happen outweigh the risks.

[matmat]

i feel like a hand has to have a redeeming feature when i overcall a card suit, like a trick source in RHO's suit, for example, or some extra strength. On the given auction, if we overcall 1S chances are we will end up on lead if we defend. If we get to too many spades, we might end up getting tapped in clubs and the hand will disintegrate before we can set more tricks up.

[shanbari]

jdonn, on Oct 20 2008, 11:37 AM, said:

I would always pass. If you continue to overcall four card suits on balanced hands then you prevent partner from raising you aggressively, unless you simply like bad scores.

yes, that was my reponse to friend, and same reasoning,

1) hand is too flat
2) Diamond K J x x is good for defense or we declear NT, but i don't like it in spade contract.
3) 4-3 fit at 2 level is not quite fun, and 4-4 fit at 3 level don't score well (parnter frequely raise to 3 level with 4432 shape)
4) occasionaly you get penalized when 4-2 at one level, and 4-3 fit at 2 level.

however i was surprised to see the 1S gets a lot of vote here, and most of my friends vote for 1s either.

and thanks for all the response.

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Oct 20 2008, 05:37 PM, said:

I would always pass. If you continue to overcall four card suits on balanced hands then you prevent partner from raising you aggressively, unless you simply like bad scores.

what he said

[shanbari]

full hand if you are interested.

Brd K97542
East 7
None A6
A952

AQJ3 T6
T98 K6542
KJ85 973
J3 QT6

8
AQJ3
QT42
K874


W N E S
================
P 1D
1S P P X
P P P

west overcalled 1s, and 1s x -3 with good defense.

[vuroth]

shanbari, on Oct 21 2008, 10:29 AM, said:

west overcalled 1s, and 1s x -3 with good defense.

---

[jdonn]

As terrible as the break was, this just goes to show one of the main reasons I don't like overcalling on four card suits. The odds are way too high the opponents are about to play in the suit.

[P_Marlowe]

Sometimes you go down and they got you, when they
could not make anything
Sometimes you go down and they got you, but they
could make something
Sometimes partner will find the killing lead,
Sometimes you win the part score fight.

It is important to be consistent, to give partner a chance
to learn, which actions he can take after we overcalled
1S, and which actions not.

If you will overcall with a 4 card suit, it is quite common
to have length in the suit they opened, because if you are
short in the opened suit, you will have alternative options.

The suit quality is key, because if I have the honors,
they are not that much interested in getting me.
Take away a spade from the North hand, and North will
consider, if he really wants to pass or if he should bid
on.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[the hog]

1S always.