[awm]

West opens 1♠. East raises to 2♠ if possible. How would you bid these two hands to 5♣?

Scoring: IMP

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[gnasher]

I wouldn't.

1♠   pass 2♠   pass
pass 2NT  pass 3♣
all pass

[FrancesHinden]

Sad, isn't it, given that 6 is a pretty good contract.

[dicklont]

Since you want to reach 5♣, can we suppose that 6♣ is down on a 3-1 trump split and that we lose four hearts and a club in 3NT?

[hotShot]

I don't like North initial pass. It's not my style to hide 16 HCP with extra distributional strength in a pass.
I guess that dbl would promise ♥, 1NT would promise a balanced hand and
a 2 suited overcall for the minors would require 5-5 or less strength.
But I don't see a reason why north can't overcall 2♣ at once (ok the suit is bad, but your overall strength is much higher than promised). Knowing about combined 20+ HCP and a 9card fit, South has a raise to 3/4 ♣. After that North has a chance to make a game try.

[Codo]

hotShot, on Oct 20 2008, 06:10 PM, said:

But I don't see a reason why north can't overcall 2♣ at once (ok the suit is bad, but your overall strength is much higher than promised). Knowing about combined 20+ HCP and a 9card fit, South has a raise to 3/4 ♣. After that North has a chance to make a game try.

The typical 2 Club bid contains some club honours and no other 4 card suit.
I had hate a 2 Club bid from my partner. In my opinion 2 NT or 1 NT are much lesser lies then 2 Club.

I would pass with the north hand, later reopen with 2 NT and pass 3 Club.

If I had been in a fighting mood or drunk, I had choosen 1 NT and played 3 NT after partner had transfered to hearts and passed his 3 NT bid.

There is no way for me to find 5 Club.

[han]

Tough north hand. 2C is highly unpleasant on this suit, 1NT with a stiff in the other major and pass is very dangerous.

[Apollo81]

I think North has more than enough HCP and shape to compensate for the poor club suit. I would overcall 2♣ without really thinking about it. South should be able to put a 3♠ call in with AKxx of my suit, so we should get there after that.

[rogerclee]

Apollo81, on Oct 20 2008, 07:57 AM, said:

I think North has more than enough HCP and shape to compensate for the poor club suit. I would overcall 2♣ without really thinking about it. South should be able to put a 3♠ call in with AKxx of my suit, so we should get there after that.

I didn't think the alternative call to 2♣ was pass, but 1NT. Agree that you more or less have to just bid 2♣ here, though. I also would definitely bid 3NT over 3♠, not clubs.

[Apollo81]

rogerclee, on Oct 20 2008, 11:06 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Oct 20 2008, 07:57 AM, said:

I think North has more than enough HCP and shape to compensate for the poor club suit.  I would overcall 2♣ without really thinking about it.  South should be able to put a 3♠ call in with AKxx of my suit, so we should get there after that.

I didn't think the alternative call to 2♣ was pass, but 1NT. Agree that you more or less have to just bid 2♣ here, though. I also would definitely bid 3NT over 3♠, not clubs.

If partner has poor clubs then we won't make 3NT (opps will win promotion race), and if partner has good clubs then hearts is probably inadequately stopped. I would bid 3NT with ♠KQx, but not with ♠AKx when my high cards are going to be working in 5♣ as well.

I've noticed a trend towards poor results from bidding 1NT with a singleton in an unbid major, although I don't object to that action in principle.

[hotShot]

Codo, on Oct 20 2008, 12:11 PM, said:

hotShot, on Oct 20 2008, 06:10 PM, said:

But I don't see a reason why north can't overcall 2♣ at once (ok the suit is bad, but your overall strength is much higher than promised). Knowing about combined 20+ HCP and a 9card fit, South has a raise to 3/4 ♣. After that North has a chance to make a game try.

The typical 2 Club bid contains some club honours and no other 4 card suit.
I had hate a 2 Club bid from my partner. In my opinion 2 NT or 1 NT are much lesser lies then 2 Club.

I would pass with the north hand, later reopen with 2 NT and pass 3 Club.

LHO opened and I hold 16 HCP, so 28+ HCP are located leaving at most 12 HCP for the remaining 2 player. Many RHO's would not raise ♠ with 0-5 HCP or would not bid 1NT with 0-7(8) HCP and they won't introduce a new suit at the 2 level with 0-9 HCP.
Usually partner will not be in a position to reopen.

So I don't think one should rely on the chance to bid next round.

1NT may be a lesser lie, but you "only" got your 4 Top tricks in NT, needing 3 tricks from partner from partners average 6- HCP, including a ♥ stopper. Not many of partners hands will fit these requirements.

In 2♣ you got 4 top tricks and you will usually get 2 trump tricks. So you need only 2 tricks from partner. Since you hold 3♠ there is a chance that partner has only 2- of them if opps have a fit, so partner might have a ♠ ruff and we still have his 6- HCP to make the 2nd trick.

2NT might also be a lesser lie, but why should I force myself to the 3 level knowing that opps can only have combined 24- HCP and are unlikely to bid/make game.

2♣ is not a good choice, but is seems less bad than pass, 1NT, 2NT and dbl.

[benlessard]

Those who think theyll reached game here are just resulting or playing the bad cop. They psyched and it worked end of story. If your not able to stand that your going to get robbed from time to time then you have a big problem.

[cherdano]

benlessard, on Oct 21 2008, 05:05 AM, said:

Those who think theyll reached game here are just resulting or playing the bad cop. They psyched and it worked end of story. If your not able to stand that your going to get robbed from time to time then you have a big problem.

I think that this is non-sense.
I honestly don't know what I would do with the North hand. But if you overcall 2♣ (which I am starting to like) I think it's pretty clear to reach 5♣ on the auction
(1S) 2C (2S) 3C
(P) 3D (P) 5C
North surely has enough for a game try, and South has a clear accept with 3 working cards and an extra trump.

Are you saying everyone who overcalls 2♣ has a big problem?

[joker_gib]

Given that we are in 2♠, I think the alternatives with North's hand are : 2♣, 2NT (minors), pass

I think I have enough HCP's and shape to try a bid here (nowadays, openings and replies can be very weak) and my preference goes to 2NT !

Then, South has to move with these very good cards...

[keylime]

I think you can get to 4C, but 5....that's wow. Something like 2NT - 3C - 3S - 4C swish.

[cherdano]

keylime, on Oct 21 2008, 08:24 AM, said:

I think you can get to 4C, but 5....that's wow. Something like 2NT - 3C - 3S - 4C swish.

You want to pass first, and then bid 2N AND make a cuebid?

[jdonn]

If I'm being honest with myself, I would have overcalled 1NT and ended in 3NT.

[hrothgar]

jdonn, on Oct 21 2008, 08:36 PM, said:

If I'm being honest with myself, I would have overcalled 1NT and ended in 3NT.

I suspect that I would as well.

On the bright side, partner will probably transfer to hearts which is likely to deter a heart lead.

[ggwhiz]

Hands that make 5 clubs or 5 diamonds but go down in 3 no-trump do NOT belong in this game!

I have one regular pard that would jump to 4 clubs over the balancing 2nt more often than not on a glass half full approach. No gaurantees but the 2nt balance highly points to short hearts or opponents negligence.

[benlessard]

Quote

Are you saying everyone who overcalls 2♣ has a big problem?

I mainly think they are resulting big time. I think the same for those that overcall 1Nt at Imps.