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Ok, is this a 2C opener then?

#1 User is offline   nickf 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 02:03

Last night my pd sprung this 2C opener on me (12-14NT, 5443)

nil, MP

AKQxx
Q
QJxx
AKx

I probably lean towards those that think it's a bit filthy for 2C but pd whose opinion I respect argued at the time that he hated the thought of jump shifting to 3D over a possible 1NT response from me.

Who's for 1S or who is for 2C?

nickf
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#2 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 02:22

1♠ OBV.
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#3 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 02:50

This hand is worth a semiforcing in ♠. If your system explicitly includes these in a 2♣ opening, it's worth one (for example using Ryall negatives). If you don't, then it's 1♠.

If the auction goes:

2♣ - 2♦ (promising a trick for ♠) then we don't have a problem, except if the trick is unluckily ♥K of course.

Playing "standard" responses to 2♣ (whatever those may be, I dunno I "always" bid 2♦ with a pickup), this is worth 1♠.
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#4 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 02:50

19 F and a singelton Q? 1 Spade, no problem.
I would open 2 Club if this is 20+ if you make it AKQxx,x, QJxx,AKQ.
Kind Regards

Roland


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#5 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 03:11

Gerben42, on Sep 23 2008, 03:50 AM, said:

This hand is worth a semiforcing in ♠. If your system explicitly includes these in a 2♣ opening, it's worth one (for example using Ryall negatives). <snip>

Agree.

You dont have too, but you can.

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Marlowe
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#6 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 03:25

I don't see any reason not to open 1♠.
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#7 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 03:35

I'm all in for 1S. If I had to choose to open 2C on this hand or the other one in the other thread I would definitely choose the other one as that had a lot of playing strength (even though irl I won't). This one just looks like an ordinary decent hand. I'm not afraid of missing any game because if my partner really passes I highly doubt game can make. I also agree that 1M-1NT-3x auctions can get a bit tough, I guess that's why (?) some people play 1M-1NT-2NT as any GF to distinguish some hand types like 5-4, 5-5 etc.
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#8 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 06:59

I feel 2C opening is a poor choice and strongly prefer 1S intending to j/s in D if pard bids 1N. This seems to be a better stroy of what I have than making a stretch to open 2C.
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#9 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 07:47

andy_h, on Sep 23 2008, 04:35 AM, said:

I'm all in for 1S. If I had to choose to open 2C on this hand or the other one in the other thread I would definitely choose the other one as that had a lot of playing strength (even though irl I won't). <snip>

True, but the other is a 3-suiter with a spade
void, hence after a spade bid from partner
your are dead, the other one has spades, hence
a spade bid by partner wont kill you in this case.

And the 2nd suit of the actual hand is diamonds, not
hearts, but it is better than clubs.

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Marlowe
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#10 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 07:50

It's a 1S opening.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#11 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 08:56

I will be surprised anyone around here will suggest 2♣. Add a 6th spade, and it gets closer.
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#12 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 09:03

Certainly obvious 1♠ but I sympathize that rebidding 3♦ indeed can be undesirable. It makes it very hard to get to clubs when you belong there, and is a bad suit after all. Still 2♣ seems just wrong, it isn't good enough.
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#13 User is offline   uday 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 09:47

Most will claim that this isn't a 2C bid w/o prior agreement, and they're probably right.

For me, this is a marginal 2C opener bec. I'd rather deal w/cumbersome followups in a GF than in a non-GF. Plus I dislike missing games (1S-all pass) more than I dislike getting too high (2C opposite filth).

Naturally, most of my Ps know this, and won't expect

AKQJxx AKx AK AK for a 2C bid.
They know they're more likely to fetch
AKJxxx AKxx xx x
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#14 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 10:06

jdonn, on Sep 23 2008, 10:03 AM, said:

Certainly obvious 1♠ but I sympathize that rebidding 3♦ indeed can be undesirable. It makes it very hard to get to clubs when you belong there, and is a bad suit after all. Still 2♣ seems just wrong, it isn't good enough.

precisely my thinking
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#15 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 10:10

uday, on Sep 23 2008, 10:47 AM, said:

Most will claim that this isn't a 2C bid w/o prior agreement, and they're probably right.

For me, this is a marginal 2C opener bec. I'd rather deal w/cumbersome followups in a GF than in a non-GF. Plus I dislike missing games (1S-all pass) more than I dislike getting too high (2C opposite filth).

Naturally, most of my Ps know this, and won't expect

AKQJxx AKx AK AK for a 2C bid.
They know they're more likely to fetch
AKJxxx AKxx xx x

Wow.

I know that I would never expect AKJxxx AKxx xx x for a 2♣ bid, although in many respects it is actually a better hand than the one suggested in this thread.
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#16 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 11:35

Looking at the stiff Q this is not near a 2♣ bid for me and I'll open 2♣ a bit more freely than some others here. Where are my 9 tricks ?

1♠
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#17 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-September-23, 12:11

1♠, it's a 4-loser hand.
Kind regards,
Harald
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