[jahol]

IMP teams, vulnerable against not vulnerable, good opponents (representing country in worldwide events), even better pair of opponents at the other table on your line, you are the dealer and have:

xx---AKQJxxx---void---QJxx

what would you open in American Standard?


OK, let us suppose, you bid 1 heart (may be, it was the best bid, may be not). What would you do after two diamonds from the left and two passes back to you?

[helene_t]

I would open 1♥ unless playing Namyats. At different vuln. I may have opened 4♥.

After 2♦ I bid 3♥.

[P_Marlowe]

Agree with Helene, although I would always open 1H,
except in 3rd or 4th position.

With kind regards
Marlowe.

[mike777]

agree

[pclayton]

I'm fine with 4♥ red/white if pard can expect this kind of hand. Otherwise 1♥.

[nige1]

jahol, on Sep 17 2008, 06:14 AM, said:

IMP teams, vulnerable against not vulnerable, good opponents (representing country in worldwide events), even better pair of opponents at the other table on your line, you are the dealer and have: xx---AKQJxxx---void---QJxx
what would you open in American Standard?
OK, let us suppose, you bid 1 heart (may be, it was the best bid, may be not). What would you do after two diamonds from the left and two passes back to you?

IMO

• As opener, 4♣ (SA Texas) = 11, 4♥ = 10, 1♥ = 7
  
• After 1♥ (2♦) _P (_P), 4♥ = 10, _X = 3
  If you double, partner will pass and your hand will disappoint.

[the hog]

4H for me. Namyats if available.

[awm]

I used to think it was better to open 1♥ on these sorts of hands. Bridgebrowser has convinced me otherwise. 4♥ for me, or inverted namyats if available.

[Sambolino]

i don't understand opening 4h unless you know your opps well at the other table and deliberately want to imitate or differ

[awm]

Opening 4♥ forces the opponents to guess whether to bid or pass. Sometimes they will miss a good sacrifice or even a making game (especially if that game is in a minor). Sometimes they will bid 4♠ and go for a number when 4♥ wasn't even making. It also becomes difficult to penalize 4♥, whereas a slower route to the same contract might allow them to do so.

The main downside of opening 4♥ is that you might miss a slam. I suppose it's also conceivable that there is some auction you could have after 1♥ where you end in 3NT and it's better than 4♥ (although it can be difficult to do this accurately).

I think it is quite non-obvious which of these paths is better. So I consulted bridge-browser, looking at hands where opener has 7+♥ and 13-15 hcp. The net result was that people who open 4♥ on these hands do substantially better than people who open 1♥. This continues to hold (as best I can tell) if I restrict to "highly rated" players (admittedly the ratings are somewhat suspect and the sample size under this restriction is not really statistically significant).

My view is that this is not really a "system" issue to any great degree, and that bridge browser is a lot better for stylistic decisions like this one than for "system" evaluation.

[jdonn]

I know I would open 4♥, and I believe the results of the BB study would hold in real life. They will just guess wrong so so so much about what to do, and the odds you belong in exactly 4♥ either to make or as a save are extremely high.

[Mbodell]

awm, on Sep 18 2008, 11:01 AM, said:

I think it is quite non-obvious which of these paths is better. So I consulted bridge-browser, looking at hands where opener has 7+♥ and 13-15 hcp. The net result was that people who open 4♥ on these hands do substantially better than people who open 1♥. This continues to hold (as best I can tell) if I restrict to "highly rated" players (admittedly the ratings are somewhat suspect and the sample size under this restriction is not really statistically significant).

Did you look at different weaker HCP ranges too? We had this hand tonight that generated some discussion on 1♥ versus 4♥ when MP, first seat, all red:

JT7 AKJ9875 74 2

With the weaker hand the odds of missing slam go down, but the odds of ending up too high obviously go up. The majority view amongst my peers was 1♥ is best on my 9 HCP hand above, but if the 13-15 and 7+ ♥ study shows 4♥ is significantly better then maybe this is close enough to suggest 4♥ as more reasonable.

[neilkaz]

jdonn, on Sep 18 2008, 03:46 PM, said:

I know I would open 4♥, and I believe the results of the BB study would hold in real life. They will just guess wrong so so so much about what to do, and the odds you belong in exactly 4♥ either to make or as a save are extremely high.

I used to be a 1♥ opener here, but now it is 4♥ for me clearly. PD also will expect me to have a real hand at this vul so he may move towards slam if we belong.

[helene_t]

awm, on Sep 18 2008, 05:44 AM, said:

inverted namyats

I'll go with a self-consistent pleonasm

[EricK]

4♥ for me. It's likely enough where I want to play that I might as well bid it straight away and make the opps guess.

[jahol]

Just for info, I misbid the hand.

After the 2 diam call passed, I bid 2H only, that was passed back to my RHO, who doubled. After that, LHO jumped to 4 spades making +1. Although my partner was void in H, we could have made 4H, what was actually the contract bid and made at the other table (after 4H opening).