[FrancesHinden]

You are West, declarer is South, dummy is North

Scoring: IMP

1♦ P P 2NT
P 3NT all pass

---

2NT shows 19-20 balanced
You play standard signals and discards

You lead the queen of diamonds, small, 3, King (standard count from partner)
Declarer leads a heart to dummy's king, and another heart to his queen in hand and your ace. Partner discards the 4 of spades.

Now what?

Edited to make declarer's first bid 2NT

This post has been edited by FrancesHinden: 2008-September-16, 09:16

[jdaming]

who bid 2nt? very confuzing

[dicklont]

So the leader started off with 2NT and therefore holds ♠AKQJ ♥Qxxxx ♦Kx ♣KJ.
Ten tricks are already established, WTP?

The only chance seems to be that leaders clubs are in partners hand.
If that's the fact, I would be owned at the table after my ♦10 return.

[rbforster]

Weird - South needs to have all the remaining points and bid 2N(?) 19-20 with 4=5 in the majors? Not sure what we can draw from this, but it looks like they've got 4♠+4♥+2♦ tricks for 1 overtrick. I guess I should continue a high diamond so they don't make 2 overtricks by setting up a club.

[blackshoe]

Why 5♥? Could he not be 4=4=2=3?

[FrancesHinden]

blackshoe, on Sep 16 2008, 04:07 PM, said:

Why 5♥? Could he not be 4=4=2=3?

Partner has discarded on the second heart.

[han]

No hearts partner?

[hatchett]

Quote

No hearts partner?

Excellent application of the new rules.

[pclayton]

Weirdness.

If RHO has anything resembling a 2N call we simply aren't setting this. There isn't room for pard to hold even a J. AKQJ Qxxxx Kx KJ is what has been advertised.

So I assume this isn't the hand, otherwise Frances would not have posted it.

Could the opponents have had a bidding snafu with RHO holding 5-5 in ♥/♣? What about AK Qxxxx K KJxxx. This looks more plausible, but it also means pard passed with QJxxxx x xxxxx x, which doesn't seem likely at all. Also, declarer could have played a club with a heart trick in the bag for a certain 9 tricks, although this isn't necessarily an option if declarer doesn't have the club J.

The other possibility is that RHO is jokering with AKQ Qxxxx Kx xxx. Too far-fetched.

At the table, I'm pretty sure I'd just continue a high diamond. At the very least, we'll cut down on overtricks.

[mikeh]

I agree with Phil.. this problem has weirdness written all over it.

Well, at the table, we wouldn't actually see anything weird... we'd have no reason not to believe what we are told, and see. We'd place declarer with something close to AKQ Qxxxx Kx KJx or AKQ Qxxxx Kxx KJ, and we'd focus on not blowing an unnecessary imp. [btw, I know that these hands are a point light, but partner will tend to pitch from xxxxx rather than xxxx, so I place him with 5 spades. Giving declarer AKQJ Qxxxx Kx KJ doesn't change my point, altho it diminishes the imp swing].

In fact, that is what I would do here.. despite the fact that in most imp problems, we should be making whatever the optimal assumption there is that would generate a plus.

I don't see any hope of a plus, but switching will cost as many as 2 imps, and we've all lost matches, or victory points, from blowing an imp or two.

So I continue the diamond. If partner has KJxxx in clubs, so be it. I'm not risking 2 imps to cater to declarer being insane.

[FrancesHinden]

mikeh, on Sep 16 2008, 08:18 PM, said:

I agree with Phil.. this problem has weirdness written all over it.

Yes, it's a ruling hand (of course).
Declarer has a good 5-5 in the majors and you can cash the club suit.

At the table, the 2NT bid was not alerted and declarer then pulled 3NT to 4S. Given that passing 3NT was a logical alternative on the hand (which it clearly was), the discussion was then how many tricks declarer would have made in 3NT. 19-20 was definitely the partnership agreement, declarer had (temporarily) forgotten that they played 2NT as natural in the protective seat.

The poll has proved my guess, which is that most of the time if this happens at the table you wouldn't play to take a load of club tricks (even at imps) and you'd shrug your shoulders and save an imp or two by playing another diamond.

[Codo]

Rubish deleted... I thought they play lav. discards.

I would still give the defenders the benefit of the doubt, that they will lead the ace of clubs.

[SlickRicky]

FrancesHinden, on Sep 17 2008, 03:39 AM, said:

The poll has proved my guess, which is that most of the time if this happens at the table you wouldn't play to take a load of club tricks (even at imps) and you'd shrug your shoulders and save an imp or two by playing another diamond.

Hi Frances,

I would contend that most of the time when RHO has bid 2N natural with 5-5 in the majors, and LHO has raised to 3N thinking it was something else, RHO would at the very least look uncomfortable or make a face. This is especially true of an RHO who thought to pull 3N. Since they "gave it away" at the table by pulling, you cannot give them the benefit of having a perfect poker face. Add to that the fact that their 2N bid does not make sense with any possible hand (4-5 in the majors and just Kx of diamonds is not a 2N bid), the defender should get the benefit of figuring out what had happened which he was robbed of by the offending side.

Ricky

[han]

I am wondering what partner's clubs were and if partner couldn't make a more informative discard.

[gnasher]

Might we play declarer for AKJ Q98xx Kx KJ10, which is only a 2-point upgrade? Now there's a legitimate chance of beating it - play another diamond and hope that declarer runs the hearts, playing us for something like Qxx A10x QJ10xx Ax.

[the hog]

"So I continue the diamond. If partner has KJxxx in clubs, so be it. I'm not risking 2 imps to cater to declarer being insane. "
Yes I am risking this. Small C

[gnasher]

The_Hog, on Sep 23 2008, 01:07 PM, said:

Yes I am risking this. Small C

Hoping that declarer's singleton club isn't the jack?