[cnszsun]

Scoring: IMP

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You are sitting South,
Pass - 1H - ?
What's your bidding now, 2D, 5D, double or else?

[the hog]

2D
Even though I play the Polish NT overcall, I would not use it on this hand. I plan to bid 4S over 4H if this has to be my next call.

Ron

[Flame]

The_Hog, on Apr 6 2004, 07:36 PM, said:

2D
Even though I play the Polish NT overcall, I would not use it on this hand. I plan to bid 4S over 4H if this has to be my next call.

Ron

The problem with this is that partner with 3 spades will probebly leave you to play 4sp, which will be ugly to play, im not even sure i want to be there on 4-4 (on imp)
I have no idea what is right here, and hope to see more answers

[pbleighton]

Opps have pretty good chances of game, you have pretty bad chances.

5D.

You might get killed, but go for it

Peter

[the hog]

"The problem with this is that partner with 3 spades will probebly leave you to play 4sp"

Why would he do this when he knows I have 4S only from my failure to bid 1S first and my failure to use a 2 suited overcall?

To Peter, why do you reach this conclusion? You have a 13 count, opener has a 13 count. That leaves 14 points to be divided. Is there any law that says partner is not allowed to hold AQxxx of S? Now if S break you make 6 on a H lead. Partner could be better too, of course.

[inquiry]

Agree with Ron. I play raptor, but his hand is too good. I would just bid 2♦.

Ben

[mishovnbg]

inquiry, on Apr 7 2004, 06:49 AM, said:

Agree with Ron. I play raptor, but his hand is too good. I would just bid 2♦.

Ben

Oooooopsssss... I play raptor 1/2NT unlimited And cue bid/2NT to show exactly suits, opening hand and above, also unlimited With weak hand, you can't have 2 good suits, so can bid good one as overcall. By the way most of experts don't like usage of destructive (weak) 2 suiters, because finding good sacrifice is rare, while showing your distribution to good players often lead to making impossible contracts...

Spoiler

----------------------------------------------------

Misho

[flytoox]

I will dbl first, then bid my diamond.

[mishovnbg]

flytoox, on Apr 7 2004, 10:40 AM, said:

I will dbl first, then bid my diamond.

You can bid your ♦ later IF your p didn't pass your dbl ...

Spoiler

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Misho

[pbleighton]

Ron writes:
"To Peter, why do you reach this conclusion? You have a 13 count, opener has a 13 count. That leaves 14 points to be divided. Is there any law that says partner is not allowed to hold AQxxx of S? Now if S break you make 6 on a H lead. Partner could be better too, of course."

I have a 13 count, opener has 12+, unlimited. Pd has passed, opener's pd is unlimited. Chances are opps have the balance of power. Opener has 5+ hearts, I have a void. Chances are they have 9+ hearts and 22+ hcp, which would probably make even with the bad trump split.

Yes pd, may have AQxxx of S - but he probably doesn't. 4S by us probably fails.

Our best chance IMO is to try to knock them out of a probable game by bidding 5D immediately, but I don't do simulations, so it's just a guess. As a bonus chance, you may push the opps to 5H down one.

Peter

[inquiry]

mishovnbg, on Apr 7 2004, 03:59 AM, said:

flytoox, on Apr 7 2004, 10:40 AM, said:

I will dbl first, then bid my diamond.

You can bid your ♦ later IF your p didn't pass your dbl ...

Spoiler

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Misho

Well, too good might be a misnomer, but with this hand, I don't want to give partner with some farily nice ♥ cards the opportunity to pass RAPTOR. That is, I have a suit oriented hand, and raptor, for what ever else it is, can lead to 1NT contract. When I am looking at a ♥ void, the possibility of a clever partner, with something like ♥QJT7 or the like sticking it out in 1NT too likely for me. So by too good, I mean too good for suit play. How many times have my partners passed by raptor 1NT? Not very often, I will admit. I am more likely to pass it than my partners. I guess if we can agree that raptor 1NT is forcing to at least two of the overcallers minor, then raptor here would be perfect, because you can show your extra value on the next round.

How is polish NT played in Europe? Is raptor forcing to 2 of the minor at least?

Ben

[inquiry]

flytoox, on Apr 7 2004, 03:40 AM, said:

I will dbl first, then bid my diamond.

You can not possible afford to double with this hand. You hand, while great for offense, may contain only two tricks on defense against a ♥ contract. (If either opponent has singleton ♦, and ♠ ACE is poorly placed). If you doube planning on showing "strong" hand next with a ♦ rebid, all will go well, unless the bidding goes...

(1♥)-DBL-(Pass)-Pass
Pass

Then, whoops.

This is also why I, as noted earlier will not be quick to use raptor. For the same hand types where partner passes 1♥-DBL are the kind he will (At least in my expertience), consider passing the raptor 1NT overcall. See my reply to misho above.

Ben

[mikestar]

Raptor followed by a jump in daimonds if partner doesn't bid spades is reasonable if you and your partner have a firm agreement that Raptor is 100% forcing. Otherwise, forget any kind of science and bid 5D as Peter suggested.

At the table I might well prefer 5D even with a firm agreement as above. "When in doubt, bid a lot!"

[mishovnbg]

inquiry, on Apr 7 2004, 02:30 PM, said:

mishovnbg, on Apr 7 2004, 03:59 AM, said:

flytoox, on Apr 7 2004, 10:40 AM, said:

I will dbl first, then bid my diamond.

You can bid your ♦ later IF your p didn't pass your dbl ...

Spoiler

-------------------------------------------------------

Misho

Well, too good might be a misnomer, but with this hand, I don't want to give partner with some farily nice ♥ cards the opportunity to pass RAPTOR. That is, I have a suit oriented hand, and raptor, for what ever else it is, can lead to 1NT contract. When I am looking at a ♥ void, the possibility of a clever partner, with something like ♥QJT7 or the like sticking it out in 1NT too likely for me. So by too good, I mean too good for suit play. How many times have my partners passed by raptor 1NT? Not very often, I will admit. I am more likely to pass it than my partners. I guess if we can agree that raptor 1NT is forcing to at least two of the overcallers minor, then raptor here would be perfect, because you can show your extra value on the next round.

How is polish NT played in Europe? Is raptor forcing to 2 of the minor at least?

Ben

Hi Ben! I hope we play raptor as 100% forcing too, it can solve a lot of problems. It can lead to bad 2 of minor contract too, but same contract will be played at other tables...

Spoiler

-----------------------------------------------------------

Misho

[inquiry]

mishovnbg, on Apr 7 2004, 04:10 PM, said:

Ben! I hope we play raptor as 100% forcing too, it can solve a lot of problems. It can lead to bad 2 of minor contract too, but same contract will be played at other tables...

Spoiler

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Misho

Ok, with Misho Polish 1NT or Raptor is now 100% forcing, then guess what? This hand is perfect, you get to investigate of 4-4 ♠ fit, show your general distribution, and you can catch up on your stregnth later. Distribution first, stregnth second, sound familiar?

Ben

[mishovnbg]

inquiry, on Apr 7 2004, 11:14 PM, said:

mishovnbg, on Apr 7 2004, 04:10 PM, said:

Ben! I hope we play raptor as 100% forcing too, it can solve a lot of problems. It can lead to bad 2 of minor contract too, but same contract will be played at other tables...

Spoiler

-----------------------------------------------------------

Misho

Ok, with Misho Polish 1NT or Raptor is now 100% forcing, then guess what? This hand is perfect, you get to investigate of 4-4 ♠ fit, show your general distribution, and you can catch up on your stregnth later. Distribution first, stregnth second, sound familiar?

Ben

Yes Ben, sounds to me as main rule of competitive bidding friend

Misho

[flytoox]

What 4D should mean here? Perhaps we can play it as a modified leaping michael? I admit pd may pass it, but i really dont want to give up on spade. bidding 5d is putting all eggs in one basket.