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Kick it in?

Poll: Over a prebalance (48 member(s) have cast votes)

Over a prebalance

  1. Pass (29 votes [60.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.42%

  2. 4 hearts (19 votes [39.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.58%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-07, 14:30

♠T9xx ♥Jx ♦Jxx ♣AK9x

all vul, IMPs

(1♠) - pass - (2♠) - 3♥ -
(pass) - ?

Sorry, not a lot of agreements here about what constitutes a pre-balance.

If you know the hand, stfu.
"Phil" on BBO
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#2 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2008-September-07, 15:17

Don't know this hand but many like it. Pass, I guess.
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-September-07, 20:44

I don't know the hand, I pass.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#4 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-September-07, 20:51

Do EEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!! Too many ways this can make.
Kevin Fay
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#5 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2008-September-07, 22:02

First thought pass, but as we haven't discussed obar bids, and we are vul I am going for it. 4H.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#6 User is offline   jchiu 

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Posted 2008-September-07, 23:19

4♥, game try.
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#7 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 00:34

I think its a pass. With 1 or half a loser will just blast to 4H hoping i can provide 1 trick. With slight more than 1 loser he will X and bid 3H to strongly invite me to 4H.
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 03:06

Pass, surprised some want to bid on this.
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#9 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 04:59

helene_t, on Sep 8 2008, 04:06 PM, said:

Pass, surprised some want to bid on this.

x
AKTxxx
Axx
Qxx

Where do you want to be?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#10 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 07:12

As game may make, I raise and hope this is that day. Partner likely has a 6 bagger, I hold the AK of C and I expect game to have a chance to make. What am I afraid of? One thing I am unconcerned about is hearing 4S which IMHO has almost zero chance.

Bid game, either hope it makes or they misdefend.
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#11 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 07:32

Think I'm going to raise to game on this one.
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#12 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 09:33

I was the other hand. I think holding this one I would have done the thing that doesn't work, but this hand was so instructive for me that I am sure from now on I will do what did work on this sort of hand.
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#13 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 09:40

jdonn, on Sep 8 2008, 07:33 AM, said:

I was the other hand. I think holding this one I would have done the thing that doesn't work, but this hand was so instructive for me that I am sure from now on I will do what did work on this sort of hand.

Yeah, I don't want to spill the beans on this one either.

I will continue to poll, but I'm getting some support from some good players on what I didn't do.

Suffice it say, this was a learning experience for me too.
"Phil" on BBO
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#14 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 09:47

My initial reaction is to raise. I realise this is going to work especially poorly when partner has a 5-card suit (x AKQxx KQxx xxx) but it will probably have play when he has six.

p
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#15 User is offline   brianshark 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 09:52

Looking at this hand, my first impression was that it was a rubbish 9-loser hand with little support and pass was clear. But the more I look at it and the more I draw up typical hands for partner to hold, the more I'm realising that game could well be on. You're holding of ♠T9xx on this auction is golden because it means that you and pard have very little wasted strength in ♠s and all your HCP are working. Plus, pard is never going to bid 4 unilaterally on an awful lot of decent to very good hands that make game pretty good.

So put me down for 4♥.
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#16 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 09:54

I think you have to raise on this, and I say that knowing full well that we may be turning +140 into -100 or (even worse) -100 into -500. Partner doesn't need the world's fair here, but he does need a good 6+ suit and he has a stiff (probably not a void) spade.

I don't think the opps are going to bid 4♠ if I bid game, altho (were they to do so) it would make me happier about my choice.

Now, if partner and I had a specific agreement that he can bid 3♥ on nothing more than a good suit and short spades, I'd pass. But I used to pass these hands in these auctions and have partner bemoan that what did I expect him to do? Bid game all by himself?

For those thinking that he could double and then invite via 3♥, please tell me how you persuade opener to NEVER bid over your double :)
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#17 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 14:50

It's IMPs, we're vulnerable...I need it to work what, 1/3 of the time?
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#18 User is offline   xcurt 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 19:42

jtfanclub, on Sep 8 2008, 03:50 PM, said:

It's IMPs, we're vulnerable...I need it to work what, 1/3 of the time?

Aaah this number again. Well you're getting 10:6 odds assuming your only possible results are 9 or 10 tricks undoubled. So you need 37.5% given that:
  • you're playing an infinitely long match
  • you don't assign any value to giving your opponents the cube

Personally, in the absence of any information about partner or the opponents, I think this is very close and I don't have strong feelings about it. I guess that means I disagree with jdonn that there's a clearly right action.
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#19 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 22:02

I raise to 4. Yes, it may turn a positive into a negative (or a negative into a big negative)-but 4♥ may make, they may decide to bid 4♠.... Partner should have a very good heart suit for a vul 3 level overcall.
Ming

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#20 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-09, 08:57

Josh held: ♠x ♥AKT9xx ♦KQ98 ♣xx.

I passed and we chalked up +200 vul.

Usually pard will have a six card suit on this bidding, If pard has the tendency to pre-balance on the same pattern, but without the ♦KQ say, game is hopeless. But the above hand is certainly within range for a 3♥ call.

Most good players I have shown this to boost to 4. This is one of those cases where you need to eat an occasional 6 IMPs to avoid losing 10.
"Phil" on BBO
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